Well, I feel like a jerk.

jimmyraythomason said:

I remember hearing stories when I was a kid about "spreadin' adders". They were capable of spreading a hood just like a cobra and were very feared among the old folks. I later learned that a spreadin' adder was really a hog nose snake and was harmless. To anyone unaccustomed to the antics of hog nose can easily think they were dangerous. If they can't bluff their way out of trouble by spreading their neck, hissing and "rattling" their tail, they will roll over and play dead. They even have a smell that mimics the smell of decomposing flesh.

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Indeed they put on quite a show. Much hissing, posturing, short strikes, spread their neck and raise their heads off the ground, etc....then if all that fails, they will often roll over on their backs and feign death. As this one did:

"Quando omni flunkis, moritati."

Shanghai McCoy said:

"Quando omni flunkis, moritati."

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"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."

Been in the woods for years and years. Don't think I've ever seen a hognose snake although I may have mistaken one for a cottonmouth. I just leave snakes alone.

They don't get a pass around my house either; just in the woods. Where I live copperheads are the only real issue. Where I spend most of my time hunting there are water moccasins, rattlesnakes and copperheads. Once I managed to see all three at the same time.

FL-NC said:

No idea.

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This is what can turn one from "feeling like a jerk" to a "Violator" and in addition to just feeling badly, possibly subject to fines, and loss of hunting and fishing privileges. This was my point. Before one just kills something, they really should know the consequences of their actions, especially before posting about it on social media. This is a hunting forum and we, as responsible hunters should know the rules and regs of our state. As responsible hunters we don't just kill, but are stewards to wildlife and their habitat. That is the image we need to portray on social media. I'm not chastising you, nor trying to be a jerk. What you did may be perfectly legal....but as you just said, you have no idea. If it is legal than it's just an ethics thing and as we know, those are as varied as sounds in the wind. But if the snake is protected under state mandate, it's now a question of legality. I'd find out for sure before leaving this thread open to the public.

My uncles did not want me to kill copperheads around the barn closest to the cornfield (far separated from the house) because they could avoid the snakes but the snakes would kill a lot of mice in the course of a year. So I tend to avoid killing snakes outdoors if they can be avoided safely. Poisonous snakes in a house or the immediate surroundings are still an unacceptable danger to me.

FL-NC said:

No idea.

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http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/WDCA/documents/herps.pdf

FL-NC said:

Well, I don't know what I'm supposed to say. I guess report me if you think you need to.

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I certainly DON'T feel any need to report anyone. Just providing some answers. In the first place there IS allowance for dispatching snakes (and other animals) if they present a threat (or you reasonably believe they do) to yourself, pets, others...etc.

Additionally, we don't even know if the snake you killed was a 'Southern' Hognose. The Eastern Hognose is also present in certain areas of your State.

And lastly, I'm pretty sure there is no longer any 'evidence', not that it was a concern of mine anyway.

Of all the snakes I can think of...a Hognose would be among the easiest to misidentify and be thought to present a danger.

I like snakes, but believe me....I'm on your side.

I can't judge a man for a snap judgement on killing a snake of any kind. Sometimes the brain says SNAKE!!! And the "fight or flight" kicks in.

Great pics Flint.

To anyone unaccustomed to the antics of hog nose can easily think they were dangerous. If they can't bluff their way out of trouble by spreading their neck, hissing and "rattling" their tail, they will roll over and play dead. They even have a smell that mimics the smell of decomposing flesh

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Those poor guys are "guilty by association" I'm afraid.

Newtosavage said:

Great pics Flint.



Those poor guys are "guilty by association" I'm afraid.

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That is precisely it. A mature Hognose has a thick body (not unlike a Water Moccasin), their coloration can vary widely but again....is usually close to that of a Moccasin. They have a somewhat triangular shaped head ( a notable feature of the 3 indigenous pit vipers in the U.S.), which further promotes mis-identification.

And to top it all off...they are prone to ACT aggressively (all a bluff) in an effort to ward off any perceived threat.

All of those things work well for them in the wild, but when 'humans' encounter them....they often fall for the antics of the snake and it doesn't bode well for the reptile. Quite understandable. The average person is not well versed in identifying most snakes.

The OP did what he thought was prudent at the time and can not (or should not) be criticized for that action. He was in fact...a bit remorseful about it once he learned the true identity of the snake. I have to applaud that.

Darn things shake their tails like a rattler sometimes too, which doesn't help. So they got the tri-fecta of cobra, cottonmouth and rattler goin' on. LOL

The OP did what he thought was prudent at the time and can not (or should not) be criticized for that action. He was in fact...a bit remorseful about it once he learned the true identity of the snake. I have to applaud that.

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I couldn't agree more.

If a hognose acts like a water moccasin, well, it's sort of like a guy sticking up a 7-11 with a toy gun. Might not have been a deadly weapon but it can be awfully hard to tell the difference when you only have an instant to decide.

Newtosavage said:

Those poor guys are "guilty by association" I'm afraid.

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Not really. They're not "guilty" because they're a snake. They're "guilty" because they do everything they can to appear to be something they are not. It's a smart defense mechanism but can sometimes work against you. Not many people know the difference and that it's all just an act.

CraigC said:

Not really. They're not "guilty" because they're a snake. They're "guilty" because they do everything they can to appear to be something they are not. It's a smart defense mechanism but can sometimes work against you. Not many people know the difference and that it's all just an act.

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Exactly what I meant.

Another site with some good pictures:
http://herpsofnc.org/southern-hognose-snake/

Another site with some good pictures:
http://herpsofnc.org/southern-hognose-snake/

I had a hognose scare the crud out of me when I was at Boy Scout summer camp when I was 12. I was on a trail and it was a good three feet away but putting on a show.

I have lived in Texas for 28 years and hardly ever have seen a venomous snake in the wild. When I lived in Arkansas and Louisiana. I would see them all the time.

When I go back to my hometown in Arkansas to hunt I see copperheads and cottonmouths. The last time I saw one, we were out at the lease and three of us walked past a juvi copperhead. My nephew was the fourth in line and wacked him with a machete. My nephew's BIL was third in line and had punctures in his boots. I was wearing snakeboots as usual.

Down here I wear snakeboots most of the year, even in Dec-Jan. I have seen the bad ones out on warm days, even then.

Bad Ninja said:

Hognose snakes actually look like poisonous snakes as a defense mechanism.
I have seen them with markings like a rattler, dark like a cotton mouth, and even colored like a copperhead.

Lots of snakes have a "lance shaped" head, not just poisonous varieties.

Only 4 snakes in the lower 48 are poisonous: Rattlesnakes, Copperheads, cottonmouths, and coral snakes.

Fun fact-
The biggest physical descriptor is hard to check:
All 4 poisonous US snakes have a single set of underside scales below the butt opening, all non poisonous US snakes have a segmented scales below the butt hole.
(*The censors here are frustrating)

Not easy to check on a live snake.

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I thought slit pupils (versus round) were a reliable indicator of a poisonous snake?

That they are...except for the coral snake of course.

Elkins45 said:

I thought slit pupils (versus round) were a reliable indicator of a poisonous snake?

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First.... we must be careful to make certain that everyone understands we are talking about the INDIGENOUS pit vipers in the United States (Rattlesnakes, Moccasins, Copperheads) and NOT apply this in a general sense to ALL snakes.

While it is true that the indigenous P/V's in the U.S. have an elliptical pupil, I would caution against using that feature ALONE as a diagnostic tool. Physical anomalies occur that might lead someone to misidentify a snake. When taken WITH other identifying features (single row of scales below the anal plate, presence of rattles, color pattern/coral snake, etc) then it can be useful.

Coral Snakes (which are not pit vipers) have a round pupil and a distinct color pattern (those indigenous the U.S.) but are most certainly venomous.

In Deep South Texas there is a 'Cat-eyed snake' that has an elliptical pupil and is mildly venomous, but no more so than Hog-Nose snakes which are also mildly venomous and possess fangs/teeth in the rear of the mouth.

It is best for folks to simply study and 'learn' the venomous snakes in your region. Generally speaking we are concerned with the three pit vipers (and their sub-species). For practical field purposes (not handling the reptile), I would recommend first looking for two things:

1. A triangular shaped head. ALL of the pit vipers (U.S.) have a prominently triangular head. BUT so do several non-venomous water snakes and at least a couple of ground dwelling snakes. So we need another feature to help us out.

2. The area directly behind the head (call it the neck if you like) is distinctly smaller in width than the head. This is a very important feature to note. Spend some time looking at other non-venomous snakes with roughly triangular shaped heads (or heads that they flatten) and you will readily see the difference. Google hog-nose snake, banded water snake, diamond back water snake and others and compare against a rattlesnake, moccasin or copperhead, you will see the difference is stark.

Lastly, if in doubt....leave the snake alone if it is not presenting an immediate or future threat.

Having grown up along the Gulf Coast and running the woods of Texas I have had very similar experiences with hog noses as well as those black snakes, we call racers.

While mowing the yard around our farm house a couple years ago I ran across this little specimen trying it's best to make a get away in the still tall grass. After verifying just what it was I simply didn't have it in me to take it out. This is probably the biggest Copper head I have ever seen at about 3 and a half plus feet in length. I took a bit of careful handling, but I managed to get it into an old feed sack and we toted it down the hill and turned it loose in the bottom swamp area to fend for itself against the hogs.




This was a lucky one of a half dozen or so that weren't so. I have also no held back on several dozen or so Cotton Mouths either. That said I never have taken one out that was in it's own environment minding it's own business. They just don't always seem to stay there, and can end up in some of the last expected places.

I've done my best to try and educate the three grandsons to leave things alone and come fetch up one of the closest adults before messing with any snake due to this. We have all of the top 4 in our areas and even though the rattlers are few and far between they to are there.