A gun is always loaded even when it isn't loaded.....

Tirod said:

By the way, those of us still married to our first wife who discuss this don't seem to have any issues with it. We understand an absolute.

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I got divorce that was well within the rule of law. I’ve also never had a negligent discharge or shot anyone or anything I didn’t mean to.

I guess I’m lucky my marital status hasn’t hindered my ability to safely employ weapons systems!

Nice dig though, real classy.

I think it was Elmer Keith who, if asked if a gun were loaded, would always say "yes." And you have to figure that if it were his, it was.
A friend here left all guns loaded at all times, Hang around with him and you would learn to open and clear them any time, every time.

Clearing the gun once is not enough, it's 3x for me. I wanna make damn sure it's not loaded. I made this video for a friend to prove my point.



Hmm... I have no audio, did you?

Pulling the trigger sure isn't the way to prove the chamber is empty.

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It is part of the triple redundant safety procedure in many shooting sports. Shooter unloads and looks into the chamber, RO looks into the chamber, then point the firearm into the berm and pull the trigger. If either two missed it, the gun goes bang and the bullet goes into the berm.

And yes, I have actually seen that happen once.

Frank touched on this a bit when quoting Cooper's musings one Rule One. The "as if" they were loaded some people like to add. When you modify the rule to treat every gun "as if" it were loaded, you turn the purpose of the rule upside down. It mentally becomes "it's not actually loaded, but I'll pretend it is". This is a serious flaw because it assumes a safe state of things that demands proof to accept that things are not safe. The opposite of what the rule is intended to convey. Rather, firearms have inherent danger and it is your personal responsibility to verify status every time you pick up a weapon.

I cannot begin to imagine what " those of us still married to our first wife" has to do with this discussion.

Do those of us who have remarried lack credibility or good judgment?

Guess I should have an asterisk next to my comments. Or , perhaps a red "D" on my forehead?

No, not just any red. Has to be scarlet, in particular.

Now everybody under fifty is googling trying to figure out what we're talking about. Because Hawthorne isn't required reading anymore.

I stand corrected - Scarlet Letter. Thank you.

Jack B. said:

1. All guns are always loaded. (Treat them so!)
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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This the law of firearms should be taught to all kids in kinder garden You don’t have to own guns or like guns. You should still know these 4 rules.I overheard my 10 year old saying this to his friends before he let them shoot his bb gun.I was very pleased.

MTNSTRYDER said:

This the law of firearms should be taught to all kids in kinder garden You don’t have to own guns or like guns. You should still know these 4 rules.I overheard my 10 year old saying this to his friends before he let them shoot his bb gun.I was very pleased.

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I have those rules printed on strips of paper in my range bag. When I go to the range and there is someone there new to shooting I give them one of those strips of paper and try to explain the importance of these rules. Also hand them to anyone asking about buying a gun for the first time.

chicharrones said:

Pulling the trigger sure isn't the way to prove the chamber is empty.

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+100000

Some people always make this mistake somehow, thinking that it is unloaded.

Always Treat guns as if they are loaded. It doesn't mean they are always loaded, but you treat it as such.

Charliefrank said:

I used to help my dad teach hunter safety courses when I was a teenager. He would let students handle different types of actions so they could become familiar. He would use a 4 " model 28 to show revolvers. He would always ask one of the students to try the trigger pull. Of course the gun would have a blank in it. That loud pop would get everyones attention. Then he would ask why the student didn't inquire if the gun was loaded. It's always loaded until you inspect it yourself. Then you still treat it as if it were loaded.

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How is someone whose instructing a firearms safety course seriously believe this is safe or effective?

It was a long time ago. Things were different then, a lot of lessons taught in dramatic ways... But they seemed to work.
I would speculate the old man insured the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction during this lesson. Nowadays, it would be unsafe, irresponsible, yadda yadda yadda... But way back when it would have been considered a great way to teach an important lesson. When you told your parents about it, they would have asked " and what did you learn from that?" To which you would reply " that every gun is always loaded!"

Jesse H said:

How is someone whose instructing a firearms safety course seriously believe this is safe or effective?

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Personally, it seems like a great way to teach. Doesn’t have to be a blank. An empty primed case would do just as well.

JohnKSa said:

I'm just trying to think of a case where it would be a good idea to pull out a carry gun for Show and Tell.

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At the range?

Yes, I suppose so. I usually pull my gun out for practice any time I'm at the range. Not allowed to draw and fire, I pull it, set it on the bench, usually change ammo, then proceed. After, I reload carry ammo and reholster.

I could easily see showing and/or allowing someone else to try it in that scenario.

milemaker13 said:

It was a long time ago. Things were different then, a lot of lessons taught in dramatic ways... But they seemed to work.
I would speculate the old man insured the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction during this lesson. Nowadays, it would be unsafe, irresponsible, yadda yadda yadda... But way back when it would have been considered a great way to teach an important lesson. When you told your parents about it, they would have asked " and what did you learn from that?" To which you would reply " that every gun is always loaded!"

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I'm sure the old man handed out ear pro prior to this training scar.

I get the lesson, but replacing one irresponsible act with another makes zero sense. I frequently shoot blanks outdoors (21 gun salute) and the first few times forgot ear plugs. The hearing damage indoors sounds fun.

MedWheeler said:

Good Ol' Boy writes:



You would, and most do. This guy probably did at one point.

But a lot of people who have reached "octogenarian status" have some significant diminishing of cognitive status. Come hang out with us in Florida for a spell and see.. for an accelerated course, spend about 20 minutes in a hospital district.

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I agree with this 100%. My own Dad was a competition shooter way back in the 40's and 50's. He spent about a decade in the Air Force in the late 60's and taught me about gun safety when I was like 10 years old. When he hit his early 80s, he kind of lost it. I will never forget the day we were at Smith and Edwards (a local ace hardware with a great gun counter) and he whipped out his revolver to show it off to a couple that was there looking. I was shocked, the couple was shocked and the guy behind the counter was pissed off. Not only did he take it out, he was waving it around like it was a toy. That was the day that I knew he shouldn't be carrying it anymore. This behavior didn't just creep up on me, it was a sudden shift from 60 years of 100% dedicated safe gun handling skills.

That is a REALLY tough realization to have about a parent. When we left the store, he was outraged that the dealer had been so serious about the whole thing. It was almost surreal trying to explain to him why what he had done was wrong. Frankly, I thought that the dealer was extremely tolerant having not kicked us out of the store and asked us not to return.

larryh1108 said:

Same thing when it becomes time to take their car keys away. They don't see the issue. They don't allow it quietly. They fight like hell. Not fun...

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Yep. Been there and am doing that with my mother-in-law. Although her mind is going, she can clearly remember her kids taking the keys away and is still not happy about it. Actually, we had the state help by mandating she renew her license and be re-tested, knowing she would fail it. That made the state look like the bad guy.

Sorry mods, I went off topic. To bring it back a bit, I seriously wonder when, in the spirit of safety, I should stop some or all of my shooting activities. How will I know without doing something dangerous? Should I let others (like my kids) make the decision of when it's time? This is kinda scary to think about.

A bit of a ramble, but I'll get there, I promise.

The best teaching and learning environment is when you have both someone to teach and someone to learn from. Think of yourself as the middle man, absorbing knowledge from someone and passing it on to another. This is what makes successful groups, clubs, etc., well, successful.

Now put yourself in the position of the "old guy". Who do you want to tell you it's time to hang it up? Someone who knows nothing about the subject, or someone who you yourself have mentored and can trust their judgement?

Begin finding that person for yourself right now, even if you're young. You'll (hopefully) have a long term friend whose judgement you trust and they can give you the word that it's time to quit based on your behavior, mental state and safety habits. Myself, I'm training my son. Drilling safety into him now so when I'm an doddering old man he can assess my ability to behave safely. At which point he can empty the gun safe and pass them all on to his own kids.

Bad stuff happens. I have a 47 year old BB in my face right below my nose. My best friend shot me with his Crossman pump BB gun. Just goofing around. He yelled, "Freeze Punk!", and pointed it at me. I said, "Don't do that, with my luck you'll put one into my face!". He pulled the trigger and it popped and I grabbed my face and yelled. He said, "Don't be so dramatic!" The look on his face when he saw all the blood pumping out of that little hole was priceless. That BB hurt a lot more than the other BB I put through my own hand about two years later. Bled a lot longer too.

We aren't really friends anymore, but the BB thing had nothing to do with it.