Are you a collector or a shooter?

AlexanderA said:

Each weapon has a whole panoply of related equipment: bayonets, web gear, uniforms, etc. Plus the reference books to describe all this stuff. Pretty soon your collection overwhelms your entire house.

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Ha Ha! My house has become a gun storage unit.

Alexander,
I quite agree, but in my theme, I wanted to own and shoot the US issue weapons of the 20th Century. Operative word --- shoot. I get a lot of joy in taking the "talking history" piece to the range and listening to its bark or roar.
A couple of weeks ago I had my Inland M1 Carbine (1942 IIRC) with it's commercial half-brother, Universal, at the range. It sure was fun to run some rounds through them. A couple of the range guys got to mark off their "wish/bucket list" on them.

I have a friend who went into WWI rifles and then went back, Franco-Prussian war, birth of brass cartridges, Dreyse Needle gun (sp?), US Civil War, and now he's in the Revolutionary period. He had never fired a handgun. So, off to a range trip with the 1918 M1911, a Ruger SR1911, and a Beretta 92. So, he's introduced me to even more history and I've introduced him to "modern" era. It's a win-win!

The beauty of our hobby and collateral is that we each can define what we want out of it.

Both.

But, everything I obtain to collect, or accumulate, I plan on being able to shoot as part of the enjoyment. For the most part, my collection spans from the 1940s to present day. I do have a few older firearms of which about half are handed down from family members. A couple of the pre-1940 firearms I will not shoot anymore.

Started off as a shooter. Turned into a buyer of guns. Now I'm a reloader that shoots a lot less often than I should...

I think a collector has a plan. They seek out certain types, models, make, etc. If you have more than one S&W model 19 you might be a collector. If you have 3 revolvers but none are the same make or model you probably aren't a collector. You probably just like revolvers. Collectors don't shoot their guns because it lessens their value. Guns that get used get worn in some way or another.

I'm a shooter. If I tire of a certain gun or I find it setting in the safe for more than a few years I sell it. I have a few that I've had for a long time but only because they have some sentimental value. Most of those were given to me by someone I know. Anything that I bought might likely be sold if I don't shoot it.

I can't really afford cars I don't drive or guns I don't shoot.

I'm a shooter that doesn't get much time to shoot. I figure at worst I'm laying in a stock pile for a future time when I can get out and shoot. Had some really nice and potentially collectible guns over the years, but they brought me no joy. Now my collection/accumulation/whatever contains plain, and very functional guns with not much pretty and I like them much better.

Both. I have some nice pieces, but also have a pile of shooters. I am at one range or another several days a week.

Gunny

Ha Ha! My house has become a gun storage unit.

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Actually Gunny I think your house is more like a gigantic gun/gun accessories storage unit! I would be willing to bet there's not a room in your house that doesn't have some sort of gun or gun related object in it!

bannockburn said:

Gunny



Actually Gunny I think your house is more like a gigantic gun/gun accessories storage unit! I would be willing to bet there's not a room in your house that doesn't have some sort of gun or gun related object in it!

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Nothing gun related in the hall bathroom. But can't say that about the rest of the house.
But I am more of a collector then a shooter because, I have a bunch of guns I have never fired. I have around 40 Turkish rifles but only shoot 4 or 5 of them. I have over 20 Enfields but only shoot 3 or 4 of them.
Now I'm not a Collector of pretty guns when it comes to Military surplus guns. I like the warhorses. Of all my Mosins, I love to shoot my 1916 Remington M91 that is Finn marked and in an unmolested Finn stock.
I enjoy shooting and collecting guns, but I love hunting for the next one to add to my collection.

No doubt I'm a shooter, perhaps better described as an outdoorsman with shooting interests. I got into guns through hunting, and now have a nice accumulation of arms that span hunting, long and short range targets, self defense, etc. I tinker. I think the only Ruger parts left in my 10/22 may be the receiver and bolt. I converted a Super Blackhawk to a Bisley. Almost all of my rifles have been tweaked in some way--restocked, triggers worked, crowns recut, etc., etc. As I've posted elsewhere, when I realize I have purchased a gun I will not shoot, it gets sold to fund others I will. I am not a competitor, although I enjoy the occasional match. I like reloading. Yes, definitely a shooter.

I do have one gun I "collected." For years I looked for an original, unconverted Ruger Flattop that was about the same age as me. Found one a while ago; it did not come with the original box. I am very happy with it. It's a shooter, too.

I shoot everything I own, no shelf queens

When I moved from Maryland to Delaware I had guns all over the house in closets under beds, My wife said please do something with these guns So I sold quite a few Still have 2 safes full Going to sell more I classify myself as a shooter. At my age I do less and less to none hunting is more of a chore than fun but still shoot

Quote Coal Train 49: I think a collector has a plan. They seek out certain types, models, make, etc. If you have more than one S&W model 19 you might be a collector. If you have 3 revolvers but none are the same make or model you probably aren't a collector. You probably just like revolvers. Collectors don't shoot their guns because it lessens their value. Guns that get used get worn in some way or another.

I'm a shooter. If I tire of a certain gun or I find it setting in the safe for more than a few years I sell it. I have a few that I've had for a long time but only because they have some sentimental value. Most of those were given to me by someone I know. Anything that I bought might likely be sold if I don't shoot it.

I can't really afford cars I don't drive or guns I don't shoot.

EXACTLY!!! Well stated. Most REAL COLLECTORS are millionaires at least and most of them are multi-multi-millionaires. They HAVE TO BE to afford anything that is actually "collectable." They have a UNIQUE group of historical firearms called a "collection." A bunch of guns is not a collection, it's just a bunch of guns which is what most people who call themselves "collectors" have. As soon as these guys heard that Savage quit making the model 24, they ran out and bought one or two and put them in the safe. What they have is NOT COLLECTABLE, but they consider themselves to be collectors. They also ran up the price and dried up the supply. Now people who want one to hunt with can't find one and when they do, it's 800 bucks or so. The same thing will soon happen to Browning Hi Powers as soon as most people learn Browning quit making them. Two years from now, you won't be able to find one because the so called "collectors" will have bought them and NONE of what they bought is collectable, but you won't be able to find one for less than about 1500 bucks or more. But the same thing happened to 55, 56 and 57 Chevys and so forth. You AIN'T a car collector just because you own a 55 Chevy two door hard top and you AIN'T a gun collector just because you own a single action Colt chambered in 45 Colt or two or three of them UNLESS one or more of them belonged to Wyatt Erp or Jessie James and you can prove that.

I buy guns and ammo and reloading supplies and knives and ..... the list goes on. Most of them get used.

I find things I want/like, but when my wants change, I seldom sell to buy something different. So the viscous cycle continues. And my safe gets a little more cozy inside.

Firearms Collector Law and Legal Definition
According to 18 USCS § 921 (13) firearms collector means “any person who acquires, holds, or disposes of firearms as curios or relics, as the Attorney General shall by regulation define, and the term "licensed collector" means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter [18 USCS §§ 921 et seq.].”

I use words as they are defined by Webster because they mean things to those who understand the definition of them. The problem we have with words is that their meaning is in each of us and NOT in the words. So if you boys want to be called "collectors," then I'm all for you being "collectors" and we'll all get along with that definition. If you are happy with that, I sure am because I dang sure cannot afford to be collector. By the way, can I borrow a couple thousand from some of you "collectors?" <GRIN>

It's all something for us to do and if it makes us happy, then why not do it? We aren't hurting anyone messing around with a few old guns and we sure aren't about to go rob the local liquor store either. Hunters, collectors and shooters are a kindred brotherhood and most of us can find something in common with each other to talk about and maybe even trade a few old guns. Or pocket knives. Anybody gotta two door Bel Air 56 Chevy in running condition?

Shooter75 said:

Firearms Collector Law and Legal Definition
According to 18 USCS § 921 (13) firearms collector means “any person who acquires, holds, or disposes of firearms as curios or relics, as the Attorney General shall by regulation define, and the term "licensed collector" means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter [18 USCS §§ 921 et seq.].”

I use words as they are defined by Webster because they mean things to those who understand the definition of them. The problem we have with words is that their meaning is in each of us and NOT in the words. So if you boys want to be called "collectors," then I'm all for you being "collectors" and we'll all get along with that definition. If you are happy with that, I sure am because I dang sure cannot afford to be collector. By the way, can I borrow a couple thousand from some of you "collectors?" <GRIN>

It's all something for us to do and if it makes us happy, then why not do it? We aren't hurting anyone messing around with a few old guns and we sure aren't about to go rob the local liquor store either. Hunters, collectors and shooters are a kindred brotherhood and most of us can find something in common with each other to talk about and maybe even trade a few old guns. Or pocket knives. Anybody gotta two door Bel Air 56 Chevy in running condition?

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Can I be a Collector? I bought most of these Mosin carbines when I had my C&R. I still have all the carbines except one of the 91/59s. Traded it for a New Zealand Savage No4 MkI to go with my other two Savage manufactured No4 MkIs.


I do have a few Turkish Mausers


I have more, but who would want to see them.

My approach is more like Pokemon - got to catch 'em all.
I try to accumulate one of each major type or variation of the firearm in question.
So, a dozen different Mosins, American, Finn, Russian, Mexican, Polish, Chinese, etc.
The better part of a century of Mausers.
Each of the issue long arms of the US military since the Civil War and their civilian-modified derivatives.
Toss in Swiss, Belgian, Swedish, Austrian, Imperial German, British, French, and all the rest - almost all of which are shooters.
Plus examples of the common American poor folks' hunting guns and then tack on whatever catches my eye... gotta catch 'em all.

Shooter75 said:

According to 18 USCS § 921 (13) firearms collector means “any person who acquires, holds, or disposes of firearms as curios or relics, as the Attorney General shall by regulation define, and the term "licensed collector" means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter [18 USCS §§ 921 et seq.].”

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That's only relevant in terms of having an 03 FFL (Collector of Curios and Relics). In a broader sense, you can be a collector outside of the narrow scope of that license, for example collecting guns that are newer than 50 years old (or, conversely, that were made prior to 1899).

Shooter75 said:

Most REAL COLLECTORS are millionaires at least and most of them are multi-multi-millionaires.

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This overlooks the fact that the big collections are owned by old geezers (like me), who acquired most of their guns years ago, when prices were far more reasonable. You can go to large antique gun shows and see the astronomical prices. But, my impression is that few guns actually change hands at those prices. Collectors trade among themselves, exchanging one highly appreciated asset for another. The inflated prices are to some degree theoretical. The big exception is machine guns, which are in a class by themselves.

Like I said, I get it. I have gathered up a bunch of guns over my lifetime too and when I ran out of room and could not put a third gun safe in the house, I sold off a bunch of my guns. They were NOT A COLLECTION. There was nothing unique, rare, or unusual about any them. There were not limited numbers of them made. They were not in excellent condition. No one was looking for anything I had to fill out a series of similar type firearms that they had and needed one I had to complete their "collection." I was like some of those who have posted above. I had a lot of guns that I had gathered up over the last half century.

Most people today do not remember a time when you could go to any gun show or Army/Navy store and buy gun parts for USGI demilled firearms that were usually in a big barrel or GI foot locker they had full of them. When I was 15, (In 1957) I could buy parts to put together a GI 45 auto for about 15 to 16 bucks. I took money I earned from working at a local dairy and bought my first batch of parts. From then on, I took profits from selling those guns to buy more parts. At one time, I had 72 USGI 45 auto's, but they were NOT A COLLECTION. They were a bunch of guns put together from parts I gathered from several sources. I sold those guns at local hardware stores, butcher shops, auto parts stores, used car lots and anywhere I could. In those days, you could buy guns and ammo from every gas station and small shop/store in town. One of my best customer's was Tip Sibley's grocery store and I kept one of my 45 auto's in there all the time. He would call me when he would sell one and I'd take him another one. It was displayed in a glass counter next to his cash register with a FOR SALE tag on it. In those days, America was a very different place than it is now and we did not have mass killings and for dam sure, didn't have terrorist blowing up things and killing people. Those are days many Americans know nothing about and that is a real shame. Back then, we didn't have to have the government's permission to sell a gun, or own it, or carry it and everybody I knew had one or more of them.

Back then gun collections were something you saw in a museum. The guns were historical, RARE, and few of them were made or survived over time in good condition. That is STILL the definition of a gun collection. Gun collections are valuable because of the same reason some coins, or stamps are valuable. They are RARE, there were few ever made, or that survived over time. People with more money than they need to live on buy such things as an investment that will go up over time. They are not shooters or hunters. They are big money people making an INVESTMENT. Their "collections" are made of RARE guns, in excellent condition, that survived over time usually because they were in the "Collection" of some other "collector" who died and his relatives or estate sold off his "collection." But those "collections" are not sold at local gun shops or gun shows. They are sold by one of the big auction houses and small fry like me don't even know that it is being sold and couldn't afford to make a bid even if I did know. I am betting that also describes most of you boys. Unless some of you are millionaires hiding out here and it is perfectly OKAY if you are.

There you go again, trying to force your definition of collection upon us poor folks. Just pulling on your leg.
Here is a good definition; A person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby.
I am in no way a professional Collector, more so a hobby Collector like most here.
In my meager collection, I have Mosin carbines from each country that made them. I have every year of production of the Turkish K.Kale Mauser. I have some hard to find M91 Mosins and three M91 Dragoons. Some of my 91/30's are a collectible like my Finn marked, double 41 stamped rifle. Then there's the Spanish Civil War Rifles.
But if someone collects bottle caps or beanie babies, I would still call them a Collector, even tho they collect things I have no interest in.

Strictly a shooter. At max I'll have 10 handguns at any given time. Have five I'll probably never sell and the others seem to come and go as I trade em' off and try something new. Have only one older "collectible" revolver I would not have purchased. It was a gift from my brother-in-law, a Colt OMM (1954).

I'm a shooter. I can't stand the thought of having a gun that I would never/rarely shoot, because I love shooting guns more than talking about/looking at them. I know this because I've purchased a few wall hangers and oddities, and I've gotten rid of them all so I could buy guns I wanted to shoot. I don't miss any of them. I also don't care for guns that are ridiculously expensive to shoot.

I don't have to hypothesize whether being a true collector or not, because I'm a certified gun collector by the Finnish law. In here getting an official gun collector status recognized by authorities makes it possible to acquire guns listed in one's approved collecting plan much more easily than it would be to get licenses for the same guns without the collector status. It's also the only way to own certain types of firearms like pocket pistols and full autos.

CoalTrain49 said:

Collectors don't shoot their guns because it lessens their value. Guns that get used get worn in some way or another.

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That's not the case in the milsurp collector 'scene' I'm familiar with. Everyone I know is shooting at least some of their collection pieces. I have fired most guns in my modest collection and would not hesitate to shoot the rest if had disposable ammo available for them (unlike most guns, firing historic ammo has a serious effect for its value!) or simply more time to play with my toys. My collector club arranges shootouts where we try and admire each others' guns and those lucky ones owning full auto stuff let us mortals to shoot them too. The Arms Historic Society of Finland also has an annual competition for various types of historic guns.
I'm also a shooter, I compete not so seriously in a few disciplines and shoot a few others just for fun.

A gun doesn't have to be rare to be collectible. In fact, you could argue that the classic guns are classic because they are typical of an era or a conflict (such as WW2), and such guns were made in the millions. M1 Garands are certainly collectible today. On the other hand, a one-off design (the rarest of the rare) is not really collectible because it's not one of a series or category (a theme, if you will), and it's not typical of an era. I suppose you could collect one-off designs (making uniqueness in itself the theme), but that would be weird. The collector mentality is to complete a series (say, an example from each M1 Carbine manufacturer). An extreme rarity is left hanging -- the collector mentality has nowhere to go with it.

The collectible rarities (such as a gas-trap Garand, an unaltered M1894 Krag with a full-length cleaning rod, or a Mark I Springfield with a Pedersen Device) are nevertheless part of a series.