Vadnais Heights MN - Police Seize "Cache" Of Weapons

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Insp Evans

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A 13 year old student at a Vadnais Heights MN school made a threat to a student regarding shooting up the school. The threatened student told his parents who called the school. The school investigated the situation and gave the 13 year old a two day suspension. His parents thought the matter was finished. Not quite. The parent of the threatened student felt the school wasn't doing enough, so she called the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office. They got a search warrant and found a house with a hundred guns and an "explosive" device. The grandfather says the matter is being blown out of proportion, the guns are legal and the explosive device was an exploding target (tannerite). The 13 year old is described as "slightly autistic".

There is an ordinance in Ramsey County requiring gun owners to safely store their firearms if they are in a location where under 18s can get access to them. Violation of the ordinance is a gross misdemeanor. The student making the threat plus both parents were arrested and have hired lawyers.

Here's the story on KSTP-TV

http://kstp.com/news/families-give-...vadnais-heights-weapon-seizure/4812122/?cat=1

The mother of the threatened student claimed their weapons were illegal and automatic.
 
Nothing like the last sentence to put fear in people.

What happened to journalism and verifying the facts?

The reporter using a neighbors claim of 80 guns and “some illegal” seems like a scare tactic.

As for the rest of the article, I didn’t get what the actual outcome was. What was done to ensure this autistic kid doesn’t use a weapon? What was the parents response?

I’m glad a shooting didn’t occur, and I’m concerned that knowing this kid has issues is a problem. But to me this looks like a hit piece.
 
This is definitely a two-sided coin showing how complex of a issue this is.

Cruz's adoptive parents did not think he would use the guns that were in their home either.

I can very well see a situation where the boy that made the threatening comment was being bullied by the other student. Maybe the mother has a justifiable concern about her son's safety if he is going around bulling other kids. The bully gets a free pass to continue his behavior as he is now a "victim."
 
How does this Mrs. Pigg know there were illegal automatic weapons in the home? I seriously doubt she accompanied the police on the search and I really doubt she was there at the police station where the guns were inventoried. And then some idiot of a "journalist" takes her word as gospel and puts it in the article. I really wonder if the media have any standards concerning the accuracy of information used in their articles.

Joseph Goebbels would be proud and to quote ole Joe “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
And one more: “That propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result. It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.”
 
How does this Mrs. Pigg know there were illegal automatic weapons in the home? I seriously doubt she accompanied the police on the search and I really doubt she was there at the police station where the guns were inventoried. And then some idiot of a "journalist" takes her word as gospel and puts it in the article. I really wonder if the media have any standards concerning the accuracy of information used in their articles.

Joseph Goebbels would be proud and to quote ole Joe “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
And one more: “That propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result. It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.”

The creed that ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, et al., all live by.
 
I saw the picture of the guns in the news paper. Looked like your average so called non scary hunting guns. A few pump shotguns,a few bolt action rifles, a 10-22. All wood stocks, nothing black or evil looking. Did not see anything that looked like a "weapon of war". Seems to be a case of keeping the hysteria rolling.
 
And once again they go for social justice. They being the jackleg media. The American public is consumed with idiocy too and automatically believe that everything they see in print or hear on tv and internet is true. These situations turn good people into monsters in the eyes of the community, and there is no going back. I truly believe that the media should be fined into no existence when they are pushing this bogus crap but as always “Billy said it” is good enough to shift blame elsewhere. But that’s what we have now... story exploitation rather than news. It’s entertainment, essentially truth based fiction, that is spewed to the masses as the gospel.
 
The mother of the threatened student claimed their weapons were illegal and automatic.
LE indicated that the guns were legal.

I would say that the mother of the threatened student doesn't have any idea what she's talking about but I think that she's intentionally exaggerating/lying based on how closely she's following this and based on the conflict between her statement and what LE said.

I do agree that it was a mistake for the school to try to gloss over the threat made by the student.
 
I appears there is no reason for Trump to pass this law---people are already reporting people that they don't like.
WHY PASS A LAW?
 
There is an ordinance in Ramsey County requiring gun owners to safely store their firearms if they are in a location where under 18s can get access to them.

Proper storage of firearms is responsibility of all good law abiding gun owners.
 
Proper storage of firearms is responsibility of all good law abiding gun owners.
And that is entirely subjective. It’s also the responsibility of gun owners to teach children to respect the ability of a firearm to do harm. Something some appear to be having a problem with. I have many guns that are STORED in a safes. I also have several available for quick access. Meaning laying out.
 
I saw the picture of the guns in the news paper. Looked like your average so called non scary hunting guns. A few pump shotguns,a few bolt action rifles, a 10-22. All wood stocks, nothing black or evil looking. Did not see anything that looked like a "weapon of war". Seems to be a case of keeping the hysteria rolling.
There was an AK in there, as well as a couple mags for it. KARE-TV's report was less anti-gun. I agree with MN State law-the weapons should not have been unsecured with someone under 18 in the home. (especially alone, as he was when the warrant was executed.) I owned guns before I was 18, growing up in MN, and they were kept in my Dad's safe.
 
Proper storage of firearms is responsibility of all good law abiding gun owners.

And I am willing to bet, most gun owners do secure their firearms in some way. Especially around children. The bad apples of the group are the ones that cause the accidental shootings. Gun left out, loaded, 4 year old shoots themselves or a sibling. The pitfall is some law makers want to have "safe storage" requirements. The problem with that is where their standard of safe storage is. Can't expect every parent to have a basement underground vault for holding a couple ARs.
 
I'm worried that this sort of scenario is a potential avenue for the antigunners to disarm an awful lot of people. Let's say you're a fine, upstanding citizen, perfectly sane, and you have been able to jump through all the hoops to assemble a large gun collection. Then your spouse, child, or someone else in your household starts to have "mental issues." The next thing you know, the police are coming around and seizing all your guns. And it would be very difficult to prove that the person with "mental issues" doesn't have access to the guns. This "mental health" aspect is the Achilles' Heel of gun ownership.
 
There is a chilling part to this tale. A parent was able to hector LE into acquiring and executing a search warrant of a person's home.

If I'm tracking this right, the searched house was the grandparents', not the parents' house.

Yes, we, as a society, need to be proactive on threats related to bullying. But, at what extent? Aunts, uncles, second cousins?

I find this germane as I have a niece, and a nephew, who, frankly, I am surprised have not popped up as "troubled" by now. Niether has been to my house; nither even knows I have a safe. But, should my arms be searched potentially seized?
 
Item #1 - we all have to obey our local,state, and federal laws or face consequences. Yes there are a variety of laws requiring gun owners to properly secure their weapons - and in the current hyper sensitive attention to this topic all of us have to be aware that the anti-gun crowd will jump on any opportunity to trumpet their cause.

item# 2 - nothing I was involved in as a cop was ever accurately reported by any news media - not ever, and I doubt that it’s changed in any way...

item#3 - if it were me I’d be speaking with an attorney to see about going after the nice lady making the false charges....

Getting back my damaged reputation would probably not be possible....
 
One thing's for sure; judging by the story at the link and the other articles listed at the bottom of the page, Anoka County is a scary place.
 
Item #1 - we all have to obey our local,state, and federal laws or face consequences. Yes there are a variety of laws requiring gun owners to properly secure their weapons - and in the current hyper sensitive attention to this topic all of us have to be aware that the anti-gun crowd will jump on any opportunity to trumpet their cause.

....
Another great reason for living here in AZ - storage of a firearm is up to the owner. Accidental shootings are rarer here than in many more restrictive places, I'd hazard the guess.However, the INTELLIGENT owner knows that it is wise to keep the guns, ammo, knives, poisons, and car keys away from children and incompetant adults.
 
How does this Mrs. Pigg know there were illegal automatic weapons in the home? I seriously doubt she accompanied the police on the search and I really doubt she was there at the police station where the guns were inventoried. And then some idiot of a "journalist" takes her word as gospel and puts it in the article. I really wonder if the media have any standards concerning the accuracy of information used in their articles.

Joseph Goebbels would be proud and to quote ole Joe “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
And one more: “That propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result. It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.”
That last quote sounds just like Harry Reid when he lied about Romney not paying his taxes. Once proven a lie, after Romney lost, Reid was asked about his statement, he basically replied, truth didn’t matter, the fact Romney lost did.
 
The mother of the threatened student claimed their weapons were illegal and automatic.
And a claim like this, if taken seriously by the police (and why wouldn't it be?) might mean that the SWAT team would be sent out, perhaps to conduct a "no knock" raid. And then an innocent person might be killed in the resulting confusion. This prospect is truly frightening. From recent incidents, it appears that the police are not diligent enough in verifying such claims before taking action.
Proper storage of firearms is responsibility of all good law abiding gun owners.
Yes, I would agree with that as a general statement. But what's "proper storage" if you have a collection of 100 or 200 guns? At some point it's not practical to keep adding more safes. OK, you fortify your entire house, but what about the people who are legitimately inside the perimeter of the house? (And I'm not talking about children.) Where this is going is that serious gun collectors are going to have to be hermits, with no social interaction at all.
 
Where this is going is that serious gun collectors are going to have to be hermits, with no social interaction at all.

Not at all; but it would behoove such an owner to make some modifications to his house to accomodate both bulk storage, (a dedicated vault room, for instance) and secure yet accessable ready guns, for which there are myriad solutions for.
 
Well, unfortunately whether or not this was the right thing to do kind of depends on information we don't know.

But I am thinking it probably was, if there were firearms accessible without parental supervision in violation of local law, and then there's the whole "explosive device" question. What is that all about.

The other big question is what kind of 'threat' was made. I'm willing to err on the side of caution on that one, because everyone is exceedingly aware right now that schools, parents, and law enforcement are all likely to be erring on the side of caution right now. Anyone dumb enough to make casual jokes about something like that shouldn't be surprised if their local police show up with some pointed questions and a search warrant.
 
A bit long, but ya' gotta' have the facts to understand the situation.....
From KSTP-TV, Channel 5, Twin Cities MN

===========================================Start of story on KSTP-TV==========================================
March 05, 2018 04:07 PM

The Ramsey County Attorney's Office has announced charges have been filed against Christopher Lloyd Stowe, the man in whose home the county's sheriff's department said it seized a cache of guns, ammunition and possible explosive devices Friday.

Stowe has been charged with two felony counts of unlawful possession of a machine gun/short-barreled gun and one count of negligent storage of a firearm in the presence of a child, a gross misdemeanor.

He was scheduled to make his first court appearance Monday afternoon in St. Paul, according to the release.

Stowe's wife Lisa and their 13-year-old son were also arrested following the search of their home on the 4200 block of Desoto Street in Vadnais Heights Friday.

Lisa Stowe has been charged with negligent storage of firearms and is currently out on bail, KSTP confirmed.

The release Monday said the 13-year-old has been charged with threats of violence. His first appearance in Ramsey County Juvenile Court was also scheduled for Monday afternoon.

The raid Friday was prompted by Jessica Pigg, whose child is a classmate of the 13-year-old at the Academy for Sciences and Agriculture. Pigg said the student threatened to shoot up the school, as well as her son.

Pigg said her son texted her about the threats Wednesday and asked if he could stay home from school. She said she called the school to discuss the issue. Pigg claims an administrator downplayed the issue and referred to it as a conversation that got out of hand.

The criminal complaint against Christopher Stowe states Ramsey County deputies first responded to a report of the threats on March 1. A complaining witness reportedly said the 13-year-old had "told a classmate that he was going to kill him and that he had a list of students he was going to kill."

The complaint alleges a deputy responded to the school, where officials reportedly told him the 13-year-old had been suspended for the threats. The release states the deputy heard that when the 13-year-old was being removed from class that day, he was alleged to have said, "Hide in the closet when I come back, because I will start shooting then."

However, the complaint said when speaking with the 13-year-old at his residence that day, the boy said he did not mean the threats and would never do it again. The release claims the deputy also spoke with Lisa Stowe who is alleged to have said the child "did not have access to weapons and that there were no weapons in the home."

The next day, the complaint goes on to state, law enforcement officials executed a search warrant, having arrived at the residence when the 13-year-old was home alone.

Both Christopher and Lisa Stowe were reported to have been on their way home. When Christopher Stowe arrived, he reportedly told an investigator the guns were his. But, the complaint claims, he declined further questioning without a lawyer present.

The complaint alleges the search turned up a "significant number of firearms, ammunition and firearms parts. Law enforcement officials also located two possible explosive devices."

It also alleges law enforcement recovered several trigger kits hidden in the ceiling of the residence, which the complaint claims appeared "to be conversion kits for converting weapons to automatic weapons." Deputies also reportedly recovered literature on how to convert a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one.

The complaint alleges law enforcement officials observed several of the firearms were loaded and located out in the open, accessible to children.

According to the criminal complaint against Lisa Stowe filed Monday, multiple pistols inside a dresser drawer in the master bedroom, all with magazines reportedly fully loaded with bullets. And a pistol was allegedly found inside a book on a master bedroom nightstand, fully loaded with magazines containing 9 millimeter bullets.

ATF agents reportedly determined one of the guns met the legal definition of a machine gun and another met the legal definition for a short-barreled shotgun under Minnesota statutes.

Mark Stowe, the 13-year-old's grandfather, confirmed to KSTP over the weekend that the family has many guns and said they are part of a collection. He said most of them are unloaded and are kept in safes.

However, when the sheriff's office arrived Friday, they claimed some guns could be easily accessed by the teen.

"There was something that had the potential look of a repeat in Florida, which needed to be investigated and I think panic set in," Mark Stowe said. "I believe the sheriff did a knee-jerk reaction. Instead of calling the principal, he did this. I think he screwed up and screwed up real bad."
===========================================End of story on KSTP-TV==========================================

When you have a 13 year old, autistic or not, it's common sense to keep the firearms stored securely. I knew as an 8 year old kid that my uncle had firearms and ammunition stored in an unlocked clothes closet. I also knew they weren't toys and you didn't just play with them. I guess those days are over.
 
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