Cross draw revisited.

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Varminterror said:
Naturally. Whichever side bears the buckle will be more difficult to access.

This said as someone who has been carrying lefty for over 25yrs, and have driven over a million documented miles, most of which included my EDC’s.

Since this is America, it’s also fair to recognize, a large segment of our population (pun not intended) aren’t physically capable of a rapid cross draw, especially in the confines of a vehicle.

Crossdraw used to be more popular. So did weaver stance and Jheri curls. Some guys like to hang onto out-dated gear and techniques more than others, and anything is better than nothing, so “ok” is enough for some folks. But there’s not much sense in being willingly ignorant to improved techniques and gear, or pretending inferior techniques are superior because you feel some natural attraction to an outmoded method.

It’s simple physiology - crossdraw requires more movement than strong side or centerline. Sure, you posit a “same side” attacker as a shorter distance to target, but video yourself sometime making the reach and draw - use some video editing software to trace the path traveled by your hand and the firearm. When you see this on video, it’s very clear why the split times are longer when running cross draw, even for thoroughly trained and practiced professionals.
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Thanks. Good analysis.
 
One disadvantage that came up back when I was coming on the job, when a few FHP troopers could still be occasionally spotted cross-draw carrying, was what can happen if, in a shooting-required situation, a shot was let off too early or too late. In a cross-draw deployment, such a shot would likely miss its target by passing to one side or the other. With a same-side deployment, such a fraction-of-a-second off-timed shot would have a better chance of still hitting the target, albeit low or high.
 
I could see where cross-draw may be superior when driving, but that's it. There was also a time when mounting a pistol in a holster on the body armor was in favor with some military types, although I never condoned it. I also don't recommend varying the way a handgun is carried if possible- I have seen some serious shenanigans in the shoot house observing from the catwalk when one of the guys with 3-4 different holsters who changes his carry method depending on x goes to transition to his handgun and he can't find it or activate the retention. Ever see a green beret frisk himself one-handed? That's what it looks like.
 
In a vehicle, and I am speculating, a fast required shot might be likely directed through the driver's window. In such a case a cross draw might be the fastest.

In all cases I am arguing about an 11 o'clock holster.

On the street, anytime I am approached by anyone who moves me from condition yellow to condition orange, or a "yellow+", I shift my attitude to a quartering away where they are at about a 10 O'clock position. I do not allow someone I see as a possible threat to "square off" with me close up regardless of how I carry. Otherwise with a lunge, and or a quick shove they can throw you off balance, or off your feet. Likewise try and grab you pistol.

At a 10 O'clock position a target is ideally situated for fast one handed shots close up, with the weak hand extended if needed to fend off physical contact. Rapid changes in foot position can change your attitude position if a lunge is presented.

I would also argue that a grab is easier defended with a cross draw than a 3 or 6 position, especially from behind.
 
RPZ said:
At a 10 O'clock position a target is ideally situated for fast one handed shots close up, with the weak hand extended
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You might reconsider extending your arm into the area being covered by the muzzle of your gun.

A preferred "cover" position is to bring your "fending" hand to your ear/temple and extending your elbow
 
9mmepiphany said:
You might reconsider extending your arm into the area being covered by the muzzle of your gun.

A preferred "cover" position is to bring your "fending" hand to your ear/temple and extending your elbow
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That is the norm, whether your are bladed to your target, or facing square. The difference is, facing your target square you can be pushed or knocked off balance easily even by a lighter weight attacker. If there is no justification for deadly force at that point you are now in a disadvantaged state right off, regardless of whether a weapon or other deadly threat becomes apparent later.
 
RPZ said:
That is the norm, whether your are bladed to your target, or facing square. The difference is, facing your target square you can be pushed or knocked off balance easily even by a lighter weight attacker. If there is no justification for deadly force at that point you are now in a disadvantaged state right off, regardless of whether a weapon or other deadly threat becomes apparent later.
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I must be missing the segue as I'm reading the above as non-sequitur
 
I suppose I must fit the outmoded dinosaur image some of the kids around here call us older guys. But, I've been carrying cross for decades. Done properly, it is not any slower, you don't sweep every person in the adjoining three counties, and is perfectly safe for the environment. But it's often hard to convince the young, who know everything, that they might not quite know everything.

Nope, I'll just continue on in my archaic and ponderous ways. Oh, by the way, next time you're at the range with you strong side holster at three o'clock, see how fast you can draw with your off hand. That old slow cross simply allows another outmoded method of drawing, the cavalry draw when one needs to use the off hand.

Of course, the kids probably never practice shooting with just one hand, much less the off hand.:rofl:
 
I considered switching to a cross-draw mode for a while not too long ago for either-hand access. But, I have trained strong-side (which is my left, so CD-carry for driving advantages is moot to me) for so long that it would not be prudent for me now to cross over (see what I did there?!)

I opted for a second gun instead. :D
 
I am an old man and some time ago came down with diabetic neuropathy on the outside of both thighs. I carry nothing in my pockets as tingling pain always follows. Same thing with a waist high handgun. My solution is to have had a number of leather dress vests made, loose and comfortable, with two interior pockets at 45 degrees. I can drop a jframe Smith in each pocket and they just disappear. All weight is on my shoulders, not my thighs or waist. They are not constricted by a seat belt, they are available right or left hand, I have a New York reload and can give one up and still be armed. Basically I have two 38 sp cross draws and practice switching the left hand gun to the right while the right hand gun is still falling empty. So far it has worked for me. Never, ever trust an old NCO to be helpless.

blindhari
 
I am 100% sure that they fell out of favor because of range safety. Crossdraw and shoulder holsters are banned or highly restricted on most ranges, so you cannot practice with them. That makes them impossible to get experience on for most, and otherwise they fall into the We Don't Do That bucket.

I think they have a lot of value, at least for specialized uses. Vehicle crews for example use chest holsters (mounted to armor, etc) shoulder holsters and so on.

BUT the lack of general shooting world experience and impossibility of training with them means holster designs have stagnated (people are using leather pre-ww2 designs, or actual products!), techniques are non-existent, and I would not be surprised to find that there are more administrative accidents (firing while holstering, etc) due to lack of suitable practice, training, and handling doctrine.

Someone should take up the torch for this, totally.
 
Designs have stagnated? Darned, no one told the folks who have made a number of mine. If you mean materials have stagnated, well I can't say. I don't buy synthetics. I prefer things made from animal hide. Training can be done, with live ammo, I do it. You don't have to go to an organized range. But I think most folks are a bit on the lazy side and aren't willing to put in the effort necessary to take advantage of the good things that cross offers.
 
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My problem with it is I simply can't find a cross-draw holster. They are all angled at a wrist-breaking angle. Never found one in a store
which is practical for a cross draw. There's always the extra motion, AFTER you come cross body, of lifting up and to the opposite side,
clearing leather, THEN bring the pistol up. I even ordered a custom holster from a private holster maker. Told him EXACTLY what I wanted,
he took notes. He. still. built. it. wrong. Can't really draw what you can't holster, now can you?
 
rpenmanparker said:
I am aware that there is a strong negative bias against cross draw among firearm self-defense experts. And certainly its unpopularity with LEOs and other professionals speaks volumes. I understand that the cross draw motion is longer than the same side draw and probably a little slower. Yet it seems to me that there are at least two particular cases when cross draw would be superior.
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The irony is many police officers put their less lethal weapons (Taser, pepper spray, batons or all of the above) as cross draw on their non dominant side. Both my military and civilian instructors place emphasis on a certain degree of ambidexterity when it comes to self defense. You should be able to defend yourself with either hand if the situation arises.
 
herrwalther said:
The irony is many police officers put their less lethal weapons (Taser, pepper spray, batons or all of the above) as cross draw on their non dominant side. Both my military and civilian instructors place emphasis on a certain degree of ambidexterity when it comes to self defense. You should be able to defend yourself with either hand if the situation arises.
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I can shoot pretty well with my weak hand. I do have to use either my strong eye or both. Fortunately that is easy with the red dot optic.
 
Danoobie said:
My problem with it is I simply can't find a cross-draw holster. They are all angled at a wrist-breaking angle. Never found one in a store
which is practical for a cross draw. There's always the extra motion, AFTER you come cross body, of lifting up and to the opposite side,
clearing leather, THEN bring the pistol up. I even ordered a custom holster from a private holster maker. Told him EXACTLY what I wanted,
he took notes. He. still. built. it. wrong. Can't really draw what you can't holster, now can you?
Click to expand...

I hope you sent it back. I have used several custom guys that will build what you want. Just do a quick google search, and you'll likely find dozens of artisans that can fix you right up.
 
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herrwalther said:
The irony is many police officers put their less lethal weapons (Taser, pepper spray, batons or all of the above) as cross draw on their non dominant side. Both my military and civilian instructors place emphasis on a certain degree of ambidexterity when it comes to self defense. You should be able to defend yourself with either hand if the situation arises.
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For Peace Officers, especially those with smaller waists, it becomes a matter of limited belt space for all that is carried. Gun, mag holders, handheld radio, cuffs, flashlight, baton, pepper - and now tasers. That is a lot of stuff.

Anything along the back at 7, especially 6, or 5 o'clock can increase the chance of serious injury in a fall.

In my day (AF), all we had was gun, ammo, mace, cuffs, flashlight and radio.
 
I would like some feedback on this from anyone with joint pain. The older I get the more I notice shoulder pain with high riding strong side holsters, seems to me that a crossdraw might be just the ticket for those with limited range of motion. I guarantee the older I get the more I'll consider that if it works for me.
 
When I was a wee lad of 16/17 and acquired my first pistol (1911), I stuck it in my waste band but forward cross draw style because it seemed natural. We (I) had no books, and certainly no internet to tell us how to carry a gun etc, and no one out there was critiquing every little nuance of carrying.

So, that is what I did and I practiced pulling it and shooting it, a lot. I still tend to carry like that (Don't want to hear it.). I have tried holsters, and used them, but old habits are hard to break. I just don't sweat it like some people do.

For riding in the car these days I use a "gun magnet" under the dash on the right side of the steering column in easy reach.
 

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