vintage ar15 ad

Don’t understand if he is bringing it up to fire or shooting from the hip nevertheless a cool old ad thanks op

nice ,

Looks like an homage to shooting a Thompson, movie style.

Or an M-14. I think that was the way to shoot the high recoiling M-14 in FA.

ilbob

Arm your men with confidence

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But first teach them how to properly handle an AR-15!

Don’t understand if he is bringing it up to fire or shooting from the hip nevertheless a cool old ad thanks op

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Kind of looks to me like he's doing bayonet practice, without the bayonet!

I do like the crossdraw holster (apparently without a retention strap), with a small DA revolver in it. Kind of reminds me of the old NYPD Jay-Pee duty holster.

Cool ad. 5.56 must have kicked like a mule back then!

He's got his finger on the trigger, so no need for sight picture. Shoot from the hip.

"Arm you men with confidence" Because if their shooting techniques are similar to this ad, they'll need all the standard capacity mags they can get.

He forgot to fix his bayonet.

Guys,

That is the hip firing position that the Army taught before going to Quick Kill (Quick Skill for civilians) It is straight out of the manuals for the Carbine for instance. As A kid with a carbine and a manual I learned it and practiced it. A lot of corrosive French Berdan ammo got "wasted" that way. Fired at an old propane tank with the top cut out it gave immediate feed back of a hit. When Uncle Sam loaned my an XM16 E1 the first time while paying me about two thirds of minimum wage and providing housing and food and clothing, I did the close range walk ( two target exposures at 10 to 25 meters walking forward of the normal shooting positions towards the 25 meter target) I immediately forgot the few minutes training of shouldering, looking over the sights at the target and dropped the rifle into the position shown in the ad. Two quick shots per target (as instructed), both targets hit and down.......long talk with range officer....then demonstrating it several more times to show it was not a fluke,......then being told to never do it in front of other trainees again.

If you train with it, that position works for 25 meters and in for Minute of Type E target shooting.

It was also a position taught for the M14 and M14E1 while moving and the M60 GPMG while moving. I preferred to tuck the butt under my armpit and fire from up there though, also a taught by the Army technique of the 1950's and 1960s. That seemed to give me better muzzle control with the heavier guns and was almost as fast to get into while walking or trotting.

-kBob

kBob, hardly a good technique for a Police officer on the streets as opposed to a soldier on the battlefield accompanied by his squad mates.

Like @Sistema1927 stated that works when your back's against the wall with NVA coming down on you, but in the streets of Detroit? Collateral damage anyone?

Sistema1927 said:

kBob, hardly a good technique for a Police officer on the streets as opposed to a soldier on the battlefield accompanied by his squad mates.

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Yep, our rifles have sighting systems for a reason.

Ever see the supporting belts they issued with BAR's in WW1? There is a cup piece that the butt fits into attached to a rather large belt around your hips. You were meant to carry the rifle like this and shoot from the hip while advancing across open ground. They called it "walking fire".



And I agree, it would be better if the Mayberry police department leave this to the infantry.

Umm, hits are hits. This, with training does work. Get your BB gun and go to a safe place and try it. Think of it as much the same as point shooting with a hand gun.

Keep in mind that at the time the FBI taught un aimed fire with the handgun....actually from a similar crouch actually and with the firing arm tucked in just the same. They taught balling the fit and placing it over the heart while shooting one handed and folks said this was to protect the heart and center line with the non firing hand and arm......it was actually to make sure the shooter got his non firing arm out of the line of fire.

Folks did not have the advantage of the internet and there were only three non NRA gun mags and no serious police magazine.

As far as Infantry verses Mayberry PD.....in those days Infantry did not live fire very much out side actual combat. Most PDs did not provide much ammo. On the other hand I did know cops in the 1960's that fired more out of pocket in a month than the department provided them in a year.

I have also fired the Thompson full auto this way......as was shown in the sales literature and the odd kneeling un aimed fire from the Thompson literature......those work for what they were designed for as well.

Keep in mind as well that this was a time of riots. Close in bringing your rifle to shoulder does not allow you to keep control of your rifle, it is easy to take a shouldered rifle away close up. On the other hand that position shown in the ad would be a pretty good weapons retention position compared to a shouldered rifle or even one at port arms. In bayonet training it is called "En Guarde!" or "ON GUARD!" because it allows options that no other position allows and allows the fighter to keep control of his weapon........hoo-yah (and I don't care how you younger folks said or spelled it).

Don't be quick to put something down just because you think it looks "bad."

-kBob

"When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging."

In what America, even during the unrest of of the 1960's, would it have been permissible for police officers to utilize "walking fire" against citizens?

I have no doubt that a person can become proficient at it. I spent a whole afternoon once practicing point shooting an LC9s from chest height like james bond.

someguy2800 said:

I have no doubt that a person can become proficient at it. I spent a whole afternoon once practicing point shooting an LC9s from chest height like james bond.

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It does take more than an afternoon for most people. But like everything else it is refined technique, and then consistant practice.

RPZ said:

It does take more than an afternoon for most people. But like everything else it is refined technique, and then consistant practice.

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Growing up, my father was really good friends with a doctor who was a P-47 pilot during WWII. I was maybe 11 at the time, he was about 70 years old. One day he was over at our place while my dad and I were shooting. I was shooting my father's Colt 1911A1 at some cans that were on a steel drum 15-20 yards away. I was pretty pleased with myself that I was hitting them. After I set it down he came over to me and said, "hey, I'll bet you a buck I can hit one from the hip, on my first try," I shook hands and he had me run a can out to the yard barrel and I set it on top. I ran back, he loaded up a single round, took a sideways stance with the pistol pointing at the ground in front of him. He quickly jerked his the pistol up in front of his hip and took a shot. Sure enough he nailed that can. It was cool. Afterward he recounted a story about when he was based in England and wasn't flying, they would always spend a couple of hours shooting to keep their reflexes up. He said all of these cocky fighter pilots were so competitive and would always try and outdo each other.

ColoradoMinuteMan said:

Growing up, my father was really good friends with a doctor who was a P-47 pilot during WWII. I was maybe 11 at the time, he was about 70 years old. One day he was over at our place while my dad and I were shooting. I was shooting my father's Colt 1911A1 at some cans that were on a steel drum 15-20 yards away. I was pretty pleased with myself that I was hitting them. After I set it down he came over to me and said, "hey, I'll bet you a buck I can hit one from the hip, on my first try," I shook hands and he had me run a can out to the yard barrel and I set it on top. I ran back, he loaded up a single round, took a sideways stance with the pistol pointing at the ground in front of him. He quickly jerked his the pistol up in front of his hip and took a shot. Sure enough he nailed that can. It was cool. Afterward he recounted a story about when he was based in England and wasn't flying, they would always spend a couple of hours shooting to keep their reflexes up. He said all of these cocky fighter pilots were so competitive and would always try and outdo each other.

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That reminds me of a friend of my dad that was a firearms instructor in the army for many years. He was at our place one day watching another of dads friends struggling to sight in a deer rifle. He was shooting like a 6" group at 75 yards and getting frustrated. After watching this for awhile he goes to his truck and comes back with a ruger blackhawk. Without saying a word he stands up by the bench and shooting off hand with one hand puts 6 shots into the target at 75 yards into about a fist sized group. Just incredible. My dad said they used to go driving around shooting jack rabbits out the truck window in North Dakota and he could hit a jackrabbit out the window with a pistol going 60 mph.

Cool old ad but it's the last one the anti cop movements need to see. Looks like he's ready to mow down everything he sees. jmho

Now I know where the 3-gun crowd got the forearm hold.

someguy2800

Ever see the supporting belts they issued with BAR's in WW1? There is a cup piece that the butt fits into attached to a rather large belt around your hips. You were meant to carry the rifle like this and shoot from the hip while advancing across open ground. They called it "walking fire".

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I remember seeing a photo of Val Browning, J.M. Browning's son, demonstrating that very same technique with a BAR somewhere in France before the end of the war. I wonder if the photo you posted is of him as the photo I saw the soldier doing the demonstration had a helmet on and had a side view to the camera.

Well those of you not around in the 1960's may not have seen this position used much......but again it WAS an accepted position FOR POLICE. The Officer in the ad could be in the lunge portion of the "Riot Step". One was taught to stand in the enguard position "AND STEP!" was given and one slid the forward foot forward as in a lunge then brought the rear foot up to its normal position. Both military and police practiced this in the second half of the 1960s. With or without bayonets it tended to make crowds want to give ground. It worked.

Aimed fire being more effective and less collateral damage? ......maybe you never heard of Kent State.

This same technique was taught TO POLICE with the riot gun for close fast target engagement.

My AA was with centralization in Law Enforcement. I did papers on equipment and training more than anything else. This shooting position was still taught by many in the late 1970's. It was still taught with the riot gun into the mid 1980s at some of the Florida Police Acadamies when I was editing magazines.

I demonstrated this position at ten yards in a "Carbine class" about 2009 and got called old school.......still a double tap where the first round hit COM while others were still trying to find their sights counts for something.

The thing with the hand gun where one brings the gun up to shoulder level and looks over the gun, either one handed or two handed is called the "Point Shoulder Technique" and was in the NRA Basic Handgun Safety Course in the 1990's. The FBI taught that with a couch and as I have pointed out also taught into the 1980s the position but with the handgun fired from the hip for close range and retention purposes.

Some of us do not just read current stuff or watch movies, but were actually alive and shooting military, police, and "civilian" in the past.

-kBob

In basic, 1967, I was taught quick kill with a Daisy and an M-14, but I don't recall any "from the hip" training.

When i entered law enforcement in 1969, the only time we trained a quick draw and "from the hip", rather than raising to eye level, was shooting at the 3 yard line for an immediate close in fire fight.

Re: the NYPD holster, while there was no retention strap, there wasn't a trigger cutout as shown in the ad. But the holster had a sewn in leather piece inside the holster which caught over the top edge of the revolver's cylinder and prevented the gun from being drawn unless a finger inside the holster moved the leather piece away. It was called a "safety seam" holster.
Unfortunately, over time, the inside leather piece wore away, allowing a draw without moving the side of the holster away. For some reason the holsters were never inspected for this, though everybody knew about it.

Also, crossdraw wasn't permitted.