Forty years ago.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Never had a Model 19. My first .357 revolver was a Colt Trooper Mk.III which was a veritable tank of a revolver. Stayed with that for a number of years til I found some semi-auto I had to have more. Also at this the time I became enamored with the Ruger Security Six for my go to gun in a .357. Had lots of them over the years. Though their triggers were not as smooth and light as a S&W's, I loved their modular design and sturdy construction.

Later I would replace the Rugers (and a couple of Colt Trooper Mk.Vs which I deeply miss), with a S&W Model 686 which to me is still the best all around .357 which I have ever owned (but don't tell that to the Model 27 with a 5" barrel that I'm still looking for).
 
Last edited:
S&W’s don’t have cranes. Smith’s have yokes...
When I was attending a Police Academy in late ‘70’s, we were randomly issued a “red handled” training weapon. Mine was a deactivated Colt Police Positive. Same frame as a Python. Way, way overbuilt for the.38spl. Others in class were issued Mod10 Smiths.

We were responsible for knowing nomenclature of particular firearms. If you called a Colts “crane” a yoke, or Smiths YOKE, a crane, it was 5 demerits. 100 push-ups, if instructor liked you and was in a good mood...
You started with 100 “merit points, drop to zero got you dismissed.

So, I’m “picky” about nomenclature...
 
GooseGestapo said:
S&W’s don’t have cranes. Smith’s have yokes...
When I was attending a Police Academy in late ‘70’s, we were randomly issued a “red handled” training weapon. Mine was a deactivated Colt Police Positive. Same frame as a Python. Way, way overbuilt for the.38spl. Others in class were issued Mod10 Smiths.

We were responsible for knowing nomenclature of particular firearms. If you called a Colts “crane” a yoke, or Smiths YOKE, a crane, it was 5 demerits. 100 push-ups, if instructor liked you and was in a good mood...
You started with 100 “merit points, drop to zero got you dismissed.

So, I’m “picky” about nomenclature...
Click to expand...
I stand corrected- thanks and glad I'm standing and not proned out :)
 
CajunBass said:
When I was just a young fellow, I let Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton talk me into believing that the 4", Model 19 Smith & Wesson was the best all round handgun anyone could ever own. I bought my first handgun, a brand new, in the box, 4" Model 19, not long after that.

Model 19's have come and gone over the years, but I've never seen anything to make me think differently. I've owned as many as three or four at one time, but thought I had sold off my last one a year or so ago. (I did keep a 66-1 however.)

Then S&W announced a new "Classic" Model 19. I knew I was going to buy one. I hadn't bought a brand new S&W in forty years. This would be the one.

View attachment 795111

View attachment 795112

It's not the same as the old guns. The new Mustang is not the same as the old one. Things change. The barrel is 4.2 inches, rather than just four. I'm told the extra .2 makes it legal for sale in Canada, but to me it just makes the barrel look a LOT longer. I know it's not, but I'm sort of a 4" barrel snob. :) I'll learn to live with it I'm sure.

The finish is not the bright blue of the past. It's more of black than a blue, but still looks nice. The grips are thinner and more comfortable than the target grips of the past. A HKS speedloader also clears them with ease. The trigger is smooth in DA, and crisp in S/A. I only know two ways to describe a trigger..."good" or "bad." This one is good.

I haven't shot it yet. I picked it up a couple of days ago, and just have been too busy. I probably won't this week because of the holiday crowds at the range. But next week, when the crowds go back to work, I'll see how it works.
Click to expand...

First, they were right, well almost. Bill Jordan actually carried one of several slicked up M-13s just as often as a a 19. My idea of the ideal all around revolver is a 3-4 inch M-65. At pistol ranges I really don't see the need for adjustable sights.
Also you are right, the new 19 and other new blued revolvers just ain't what they used to be.
 
GooseGestapo said:
S&W’s don’t have cranes. Smith’s have yokes...
When I was attending a Police Academy in late ‘70’s, we were randomly issued a “red handled” training weapon. Mine was a deactivated Colt Police Positive. Same frame as a Python. Way, way overbuilt for the.38spl. Others in class were issued Mod10 Smiths.

We were responsible for knowing nomenclature of particular firearms. If you called a Colts “crane” a yoke, or Smiths YOKE, a crane, it was 5 demerits. 100 push-ups, if instructor liked you and was in a good mood...
You started with 100 “merit points, drop to zero got you dismissed.

So, I’m “picky” about nomenclature...
Click to expand...

Normally I am picky about nomenclature also but in this case its all marketing and the antagonist relation ship between Colt and S&W. The cylinders rotate opposite directions the cylinder releases go opposite directs they refuse to use the same terms for the same parts etc etc. There is no technical merit to the differences in names it's just there refusal to play nice with each other so I tend to use them interchangeably.
 
Last edited:
The 19 and other K frame .357s are indeed very well designed and made revolvers, I would say a 3-4 inch revolver in .357 mag is damn near the most versatile handgun you have though I would have to agree with others opinions that the smith 586/686 is going to be the cream of the crop. The weight difference isnt significant enough to be a detriment to carry, I dont have to worry about shooting it loose or the forcing cone cracking, and the grip sizes are the same. The GP 100 doesnt offer the same advantages over its predecessor to say the same, the GP is a good gun but the bulkiness on it is ungainly for me, although the match champion seems to remedy that a bit.
 
Bones741 said:
Does the new model 19 have the same lock up system (ball detent) as the new model 66/69's?
Click to expand...

No, totally different. At least it different than the 69's. I've never really looked at a new Model 66. My first thought was the 69 and the 66 would be the same, but one is an L frame, and the other is a K frame, so I'm not sure.

It's funny. I have never cared at all for the 586/686 series of guns. No idea why, I know they're really nice, but they just never interested me. Same thing with the Ruger Speed/Security series. Back in the day I had a couple of them (They were "kidnapped" by my ex-wife during our divorce.) But I have never even looked at a GP 100. Just doesn't interest me.

Actually I think I do know why. I don't care for full length underlugs on any handgun other than the Colt Python. No logical reason, other than I don't like them.
 
CajunBass said:
No, totally different. At least it different than the 69's. I've never really looked at a new Model 66. My first thought was the 69 and the 66 would be the same, but one is an L frame, and the other is a K frame, so I'm not sure.

It's funny. I have never cared at all for the 586/686 series of guns. No idea why, I know they're really nice, but they just never interested me. Same thing with the Ruger Speed/Security series. Back in the day I had a couple of them (They were "kidnapped" by my ex-wife during our divorce.) But I have never even looked at a GP 100. Just doesn't interest me.

Actually I think I do know why. I don't care for full length underlugs on any handgun other than the Colt Python. No logical reason, other than I don't like them.
Click to expand...

Hey everyone has their own taste. I'm a Ruger guy,and currently have a single action bug going on,but itll pass. If I were to buy a new Smith I think the new model 19 would be the one,such a classy gun, the 66 is nice too but would need a nice set of wood grips. Anyways, congrats on the purchase !
 
I wonder if they would use that new frame to make some fixed sight Model 13s. The new crane with the detent lock and barrel with no undercut at the forcing cone could make one sweet upgraded model 13. The 19 is nice and all that but I have always liked the fixed sighted Model 13 better. A fighting revolver should IMHO have fixed sights.
 
Last edited:
Model 19-5 = 357mag 12 shots in same group- 15 yards.jpg
Beauty is a BEAST!
Model 19-5 at 15 yards, stacks every time as long as I can do it.
Love model 19, well I love lots of S&W & own a few model 19s.
That one you bought is magnificent.
 
mcb said:
I wonder if they would use that new frame to make some fixed sight Model 13s. The new crane with the detent lock and barrel with no undercut at the forcing cone could make one sweet upgraded model 13. The 19 is nice and all that but I have always liked the fixed sighted Model 13 better. A fight revolver should IMHO have fixed sights.
Click to expand...

I don't see why not, but I'm sure it will depend on how well this one sells.

I'm happy to see that S&W has enough confidence in the revolver market to introduce something new these days. Let's face it. They can't be hoping for many orders from the military or law enforcement market.
 
The only fly in the ointment is the extra hole above the cylinder release. A new Model 13 without the lock would move right to the top of my list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcb
bannockburn said:
Never had a Model 19. My first .357 revolver was a Colt Trooper Mk.III which was a veritable tank of a revolver.

... a S&W Model 686 which to me is still the best all around .357...
Click to expand...

The Trooper Mk III below was also my first .357 Magnum back in the early '80s. I'm in the process of selling it and locating a no-dash 586 to go along with my 686 that I've had almost as long as the Trooper, because I agree that the L-frame Smith is as good as revolvers get for me.

Trooper Mk III 002 Left side 2_small file.jpg

I also have a Model 67, which of course is essentially a 19 / 66 chambered in .38 Special. I like that gun a LOT, but the L frame is the better shooter, IMO.
 
I think it was only the hot 125s that caused the 19’s problems; and that bc of the cut in the breech end of the barrel.
My option is to only shoot 158+ grain boolits. Jmtcw
 
Catpop said:
I think it was only the hot 125s that caused the 19’s problems; and that bc of the cut in the breech end of the barrel.
My option is to only shoot 158+ grain boolits. Jmtcw
Click to expand...
You are correct. The problems did develop after shooting hundreds (perhaps thousands) of rounds of hot 125 grain rounds by several police agencies. The problem was caused by the “jump” to the forcing cone by the light 125 grain bullet. The longer 158 grain bullet has a shorter ”jump” and does not cause the problem of the cracked forcing cone. I have a couple of older 19s and 66s which never see the lighter bullets. I generally use them with 158 grain LSWC bullets over light charges of Unique with only occasional full power jacketed rounds.
 
CajunBass said:
Then S&W announced a new "Classic" Model 19. I knew I was going to buy one. I hadn't bought a brand new S&W in forty years. This would be the one.
Click to expand...

CajunBass,
That looks like a very nice revolver.
I have been toying with buying one of the “Classics”. I have several S&W revolvers. I have a 19-4 with a 6” barrel. It was made in 1978. I like it very much but am looking for a shorter barreled 6 shot .357. This new 19 might be one I would like to own.

Does the documentation that came with your revolver mention limiting ammo in any way? I have done a few searches regarding the care and feeding of this new model 19 but have found nothing that mentions limiting Magnum ammo or preferences for particular bullet weights.

Also, many folks dislike “the lock”. I have a model 60 Pro and a 327 Night Guard with these locks. I fire these guns often and with a variety of ammo that includes lots of various Magnum loads. The lock has never been an issue of any kind with either of these guns. I have set and released the locks numerous times just to see if they “loosen up” and set themselves during firing and I had no issues - I did this to be sure there would be no issues.

I hope you have gotten to shoot your new gun by now and look forward to an update on it.
 
To tell you the truth, I've never looked at the manual except to laugh about the amount of "red warnings" there are.

I had to dig it out. As expected, nothing at all except the standard warnings to only use ammo designed for the firearm, or lower powered rounds like 38 Special in a 357.

But then they never said anything about the old guns either I don't believe.
 
CajunBass said:
To tell you the truth, I've never looked at the manual except to laugh about the amount of "red warnings" there are.

I had to dig it out. As expected, nothing at all except the standard warnings to only use ammo designed for the firearm, or lower powered rounds like 38 Special in a 357.

But then they never said anything about the old guns either I don't believe.
Click to expand...

I believe the manual for the scandium framed, titanium cylinder, J-frames like the 340PD does explicitly say not to use certain ammunition. In the J-frame's is 357 Magnum ammunition using bullets lighter than 125gr IIRC.
 
Thats a nice model 19. I have owned several of the old model 19s and a couple of 66s and wish I had a couple still on hand. I have looked at used ones on GB but just can't justify the prices they are asking for them.

I do have a couple of Ruger Securit Six guns. A first year 150 series and a 151 series made in 1986. That newer gun is close to the model 19. Close enough anyway. I had a left over mainspring from a Wolfe spring kit for the GP-100 and installed it in the Security Six and what a difference that made. Now this gun has a fantastic trigger pull. Not as good as the trigger on my unfired model 28 but very good for a Ruger. I am happy with that.

Nobody has asked but is the rifling on the new model 19 the EDM (?) rifling or is it cut rifling like they used to do? I have read the new rifling works very well for jacketed bullets but not so well for lead. I had a 629 that was great with jacketed but not so good with lead. Plus the forcing cone was a tight .429.
 
Ratshooter said:
Nobody has asked but is the rifling on the new model 19 the EDM (?) rifling or is it cut rifling like they used to do? I have read the new rifling works very well for jacketed bullets but not so well for lead. I had a 629 that was great with jacketed but not so good with lead. Plus the forcing cone was a tight .429.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just noticed this. I don't have any idea about the rifling other than to say it's there. :) I'm not the mechanical guy.

Nor am I the guy who shoots off a bench and carefully measures groups and can give a really helpful range report. All I can say is I took it to the range yesterday and fired a box of Fiochi, 140 grain TC, plated (jacketed?) rounds through it. Normally I don't bother with 357 for range work, but thought it was appropriate for this gun. I'm also not the guy who shoots at long ranges, or does a bunch of drills and such. I just go shooting.

As expected, no problems at all. My first five rounds from the seven yard line were in the 10X of a B-27 target. That's about as well as I can shoot any gun standing up on my back legs. Then I started shooting double action, and....well it wasn't that good, but I didn't shoot out any overhead lights, or hit the floor or walls. ;) When I left they said "come back again" so I guess I didn't do too badly. Seriously it shot about the same I would have expected any Model 19/66 to shoot. I'll leave serious range reports to others.

I like the gun. The trigger, especially the D/A is very nice. The grips however are a little slick. The checkering didn't seem to do much of anything. It's not a problem for me really, but more serious shooters might want to check out other grips if they find the same thing. I don't shoot a lot of serious 357 ammo, so I don't think the grips will be a problem with either my more moderate 357's or the 38's I usually shoot.

That's about all I got for now. Hope it helps someone.
 
GooseGestapo said:
S&W’s don’t have cranes. Smith’s have yokes...
When I was attending a Police Academy in late ‘70’s, we were randomly issued a “red handled” training weapon. Mine was a deactivated Colt Police Positive. Same frame as a Python. Way, way overbuilt for the.38spl. Others in class were issued Mod10 Smiths.

We were responsible for knowing nomenclature of particular firearms. If you called a Colts “crane” a yoke, or Smiths YOKE, a crane, it was 5 demerits. 100 push-ups, if instructor liked you and was in a good mood...
You started with 100 “merit points, drop to zero got you dismissed.

So, I’m “picky” about nomenclature...
Click to expand...

If you're picky about nomenclature a Police Positive is a D frame same as the Detective Special. An Official Police is an E frame and a Python is an I frame IIRC.
 
Yes. Your right. Hadn’t thought about it in a long time.
I couldn’t remember official police...
Almost bought an Officers Model a couple of years ago. I was surprised they aren’t worth more. It was first one I’d ever seen for sale. $375 iirc.
 
I carried a 4" 19 back in the late 70's early 80's on my trap line. Great little revolver.
 
Not discounting the quality and inherent “enjoyability” of the K19, but I can’t help but ask - what makes a 3-4” .357mag an “all around” revolver?
 
I personally am not a fan of 357 Magnum as I see it as a jack-of-all-trades but master of none, but the perception of it being an "all around" revolver maybe the other side of that same coin. A 3-4 inch K-frame 357 Magnum is small enough to carry comfortably all day (open or concealed), long enough to get good ballistic performance out of the 357 Mag cartridge and has a reasonable sight radius. The 357 Magnum cartridge is potent enough to be both an effective man-stopper and an adequate hunting cartridge for small to medium game with the ability to use 38 Special for cheap plinking and training.

ETA: clarified that I meant small to medium game not small-medium game... ;)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

bikemutt
  • Locked
When it rains model 19s in the NW...
Replies
17
Views
1K
svtruth
S
TheFrontRange
  • Locked
Blu Magnum Skeeter Skelton Grips
Replies
5
Views
3K
TheFrontRange
TheFrontRange
M
  • Locked
Do These Really Exist?
Replies
4
Views
1K
9mmepiphany
9mmepiphany
G
  • Locked
Revolver Values
Replies
4
Views
743
ugaarguy
ugaarguy
S
  • Locked
S&W Model 19-4 question
Replies
3
Views
387
glassman
glassman
Back
Top