Another 742 post?

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B1shooter

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I have been researching about the Remington 742 and its notorious extraction/ejection/jamming problems. I have one right now that will not extract the empty shell. 1st shot, every shot. It doesn't even like to extract a loaded round when manually operated. I have replaced the extractor with a new one and also replaced the ejector spring. (sometimes when functioning the action manually it would not eject, if it extracted the shell) It still has the same problem, it wont grab the empty and extract it. I have inspected all the bolt and barrel extension lugs and nothing appears to be worn or damaged. I have also inspected the rails in the receiver that are notorious for getting banged up. There is only a small amount of damage towards the back where the bolt stops and that appears to be caused by the bolt lugs. It's really just some shiny spots that I can barely feel with my fingers. I figure it was caused by some heavy loads or some over zealous reloads. The last thing I have done is to take a bronze cleaning brush on a drill and really clean out the chamber. It will still not extract the empty case.
Any thoughts or other points of view are greatly appreciated. If it makes a difference, the ammo I am testing with is Rem Core-Lokt 150gr. I failed to mention the caliber. 30-06.
 
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Won't grab the fired shell or even extract an unfired round. Sounds like the extractor needs to somehow be adjusted. The extractor must be just barely catching the cartridge rim. Is there perhaps some dirt, crud or corrosion in the extractor area of the bolt that is not letting it completely returning to "home"? Did the old extractor appear worn as compared to the new one you installed? Other than that, I don't know, good luck.
 
Sounds like the replacement extractor doesn't have enough surface area to grab the case, and/or something in the chamber or cases themselves is causing this.
Suggested remedies, in order of ease:
1. Polish the chamber.
2. Use factory ammo until reliable functioning is achieved. (Caliber? If .308, use 7.62 NATO ammo.)
3. Find a gunshop/ gunshow vendor that will let you stringer sort extractors until you find one with enough of a lip to reliably grab the case, and replace the extractor. Be sure to bring a caliper or mic with you.

The extractors on the 742 were always a weak point, and a PITA to replace.
 
The last 742's I worked on had very badly rusted/pitted chambers. Any pitting in the chamber will make the grab during extraction and can/will rip the rims right off the brass. I ended up running a cylinder hone in the chambers to smooth them up. Doing this works the brass more if you reload. One of the receivers was bad from the bolt chewing the extremely soft metal up. So it's now a parts gun.

Since you said you can not extract a live round indicates the extractor is not engaging the brass rim. Need to take a close look at the extractor. I've seen them crack/brake ( the thin ring) and loose gripping pressure and still stay in the bolt due to design and shape.
 
Maybe the chamber is tight. Use a chamber brush, clean that up. It might take running a reamer down the chamber if the chamber was cut with a worn reamer at the factory.

I do think you have an extractor problem, but it seems that you also have a tight chamber, or, over pressure ammunition problem.

I would not use factory ammunition in a 742. That rifle has been off the market for decades, I don't see a reason why any commercial manufacturer would load their ammunition to the appropriate (low) pressures and velocities. If you have to shoot factory ammunition, find Garand appropriate ammunition, the pressure curve would be appropriate for your M742. What I would do, is reload for a 742. Firstly I would use a small base die and set up the dies with a case gage, and size to gage minimum. Then I would use a load of 150 grain with 47.0 grains IMR 4895. That should push the bullet just at 2700 fps. I would not want to move a bullet faster, or at higher pressure, or use a slower powder. I don't have any IMR 3031 loads in 30-06, but that would be worth a try. IMR 3031 is a faster powder and used to be a very popular 30-06 target powder. I recently noticed that IMR 3031 is now short cut, my 60's tins of IMR 3031 were long grained. Did not throw worth a hoot, but the short grain stuff meters well. What you want is a fast burning powder that safely produces a velocity of 2700 fps, because you want the pressure to drop as quickly as possible as the action opens.

Also, try lubricating your cases and firing them lubricated. This will break the friction between case and chamber, at normal pressures, and help get the cartridge out of the chamber. You can use anything greasy, oily. Vasoline and hair gel will work.

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I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in Garands and M1a's that were coated with Johnson Paste wax. I buffed the rounds so they would feed more reliably in cold weather. Paste wax turns into a liquid at the temperatures and pressures of combustion. I believe paste wax is mostly ceresin wax, which is what Pedersen used on his ammunition.

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It is worth reading this thread:

742 Woodsmaster - Now what?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=530602
 
This used to be at the Wisner's web page, the pictures are gone:


The first thing I would look at if a feeding problem seems to be the culprit, is the magazine. Feeding problems on these series of models can many times be traced to the magazine as with any semi-auto. Here the average hunter is more likely to leave the magazine loaded even when the gun is put away. Also the magazines will have been carried in a pocket where lint, twigs, dirt etc. can accumulate. With this debris internally the live round can be restricted as it tries to feed up into the chamber, possibly causing a malfunction. Also they can have became sat on & squashed so as to not allow the follower to come all the way up. You notice I do not use the word “Jam”, as it is so broad a term that it is essentially useless.

The followers from these semi-auto magazines will tax your imagination & patience to remove & then reconnect them back onto the trip latch. I would suggest that to clean the internal parts of one of these, that either you soak it in solvent & blow it out with compressed air at the same time depressing the follower. Or if you do disassemble one to get it clean, pay close attention to how it came apart.

The next to look at would be are reloads being used? Reloads are not bad, BUT the reloader needs to be WELL aware of proper sizing for semi-autos. This is completely different than for bolt action guns. A small base die needs to be used that sizes the WHOLE body back to original factory specs. Also if a crimp is used on the case, it will have to be trimmed accordingly so there is no bulge at the neck. This reloaded case MUST fall into the chamber. Also it is advisable to only reload them to be used for hunting 2 or maybe 3 times. As with this small base resizing will work the base & can create a case head separation of the brass after a few loadings. You can reload them more, but use these multi loaded ones for target practice. Believe me it is rather helpless seeing an animal you just hit, but did not go down & then run off with you holding a useless firearm. You have a case head separation in your gun & about all you can do is to just can stand there with your finger in your nose.

Another thing to look at if you reload is that the pressure level has to be near the factory otherwise the bolt will not cycle enough to eject. Read the reloading manual & try to pick a load at least in the mid range.


You guys that say I have reloaded for 30 years, therefore I know what I am doing does not mean a thing if it has NOT been for semi-autos that the reloader is in turn using themselves. Hell, I have been eating for 70 years but that does not make me a cook.

Another problem with these guns is that the chambers tend to get rusty. These extractors are a light metal "C" type clip with a small hole on one end that is used with a rivet to anchor it into the bolt head, & on the other side of this extractor there is a slight protrusion that has a sharp rear edge that acts as the extraction point.

At first the rusty chamber situation may just cause extraction problems. Then since things do not improve by themselves, the extractor may get bent & not be as efficient as it should be.

As things worsen, the gun can malfunction by not pulling the case from the chamber because of the internal rust in the chamber gripping the fired case & or the faulty extractor. If the rust job gets bad enough & the case is really stuck, the bolt will come back with enough force that it can rip the lips of the bolt face off. This then leaves no metal to hold the extractor into the bolt head. You now can have a really stuck fired case & a broken bolt head.

In the pictures below the barrel was almost ruined by neglect. The bore was bad also when I got the gun, but it was firing & extracting, much to my dismay. I was able to salvage this gun, by polishing the chamber with crocus cloth & fire lapping the bore, & the gun is still in service today.

A GOOD gunsmith/welder can weld the broken lips of the bolt & re-machine it back & reinstall a new extractor. If the chamber rust is not too bad it can be polished out with fine emery cloth wound around a slotted flexible shaft mounted in a 1/4" drill motor. It has been discussed on some message boards to not do this because it will change the headspace. Well, the gun is somewhat ruined now, whatever you do to get it operational makes it better than it was. Sure you may have made a slight change in the chamber, but using this method, you can not remove an excess amount. Also do not believe the BS about the chamber has to be slightly rough. Look at any new semi-auto & you will see a very smooth chamber. If it is somewhat rough, the extractor will indeed pull chunks off the case rim leaving the fired case in the chamber OR rip the bolt lips off that hold the extractor in place in the bolt. The roughness idea may have come from a retarded blowback pistol, which this is the case there, NOT HERE.

After many years of pondering why these guns were plagued with this phenomena & not the makes or models of others, the following answer finally came to me. It was the dedicated, hunt in the cold/rain, deer/elk hunters that seemed to have the majority of the problems. The sunshine hunters appear to not have any problems.

In the Pacific Northwest, elk season is later in the year when the weather is nasty, cold, rain, sleet & blowing. Also here the brush, replanted trees, & timber is thick, so the hunters usually get out in the brush in the morning, get wet & cold, and then drive around on logging roads in the afternoon to dry out & hope to see animals that some other hunters have put on the move. In the state of Washington, a loaded firearm in the vehicle is illegal, so they unload the gun, remove the magazine, & rest the muzzle on the floor possibly between the 2 hunters or in a gun rack for quick access.

This could also happen in a very humid climate. In the colder weather the barrel will condense water on the inside & since the action is spring loaded and has no means of being held open without an empty magazine inserted, the average owner simply leaves it closed. The gun has gotten wet & COLD, now it is subject to a forced HOT air from the heater, in this close proximity to heat, the COLD steel condenses moisture on both sides of the steel. With the bolt forward under spring pressure & the muzzle down, when the barrel warms up the inside has condensation, this rises & is trapped inside the chamber. But the inside has no place to go.

If the drive home is long enough &/or the firearm stays there long enough, the outside condensation will dry off. At the end of the day, he then takes it home & may stand it in the corner to dry off. The condensed water inside of the barrel, then runs down & collects in the chamber area. Then possibly the gun MAY see an oily cleaning patch run thru the bore but the chamber is usually missed. This is not an area that the average hunter will even see if he runs a cleaning rag thru the barrel. Usually the bolts are closed on most firearms when being stored. This also traps any moisture inside the chamber. The gun is set away with the bolt closed until the next year with the owner thinking that they have done the right thing. The end result is a RUSTY chamber that we have seen MANY times, but did not understand what may have happened.

One of the most common problems with the Remington 740 & 742 is that after much use the receiver rails will get worn. These rails guide the bolt lugs on the movement both rearward & forward. The receiver is made of a soft metal since the bolt lugs engage the rear of the barrel for a positive lockup. The receiver simply holds the parts together.

This movement is under gas pressure on the rearward movement & spring pressure on the forward movement. At the rearward stop position the inertia of this bolt lug exerts extra pressure caming it against the receiver rails, pounding them enough that they get worn. There is a bolt latch on the 742 (this latch was not on the 740), this latch is supposed to lock the bolt head into the bolt carrier to help keep the front from over-rotating at the most rearward inertia's movement, but after wear on all parts, things seem to get sloppy & do not function as intended.

When this happens the bolt lugs, now slightly out of time, having been moving back & forth, may also chew up the front of the rails. Then the bolt carrier & lugs can get bound up & in extreme circumstances actually stop the bolt unit from cycling when the gun is fired, or binding it on the return stroke enough to stop it before it completely closes.

Under some circumstances the operating handle may drag, usually on the bottom of the receiver slot that the handle operates in. If this happens it is usually related to the above rail problem.


Since there are no new receivers available & the only used ones could be questionable in that may possibly be worn also, A GOOD gunsmith/welder/machinist familiar with firearms can usually salvage the receiver by welding the worn rails with a special long nozzled wire feed or heliarc welder. This receiver can then be re-machined to factory or tighter dimensions on a vertical mill using special long cutters. This is not a job for the average "gunsmith" however.

If you have to take the barrel extension of to do any rechambering or rebarreling you will need to make a barrel extension wrench. This extension is actually the barrels locking lugs. It is threaded & timed to the barrel so that the extension is indexed so the sights, barrel lug are all indexed for bolt lockup, headspace & everything where it should be. There is not any commercially available fixtures available to remove these extensions. If you try to use any other method, you will about 99% be assured of breaking the extension.

In the above photo, the inner slider is made to fit inside the barrel locking lugs. The 3/8" bolt locks the slider to the base. The bolt hole is also aligned with the barrel lug attachment bolt hole. In use, for removal the base is inserted over the barrel lug extension & the slider is then slid endwise into the lug recess. The bolt is inserted in just far enough to lock these 2 parts together, but not into the main barrel lug. Mark the relationship of the barrel to the barrel lug with a scribe mark on layout die. This will allow you to reinstall it in the same position.

Now Remington changed the threads at barrel date code (LO) from RH to LH to facilitate the extension not being backed off when used on the semi-auto guns. This will determine which direction, you trey to remove it from. You can nor put the barrel in a barrel vise, rap the removal handle in the proper direction & unscrew the extension off the barrel. They are usually on tight & require force to remove even after the initial bond is broken. Once it is off, if the barrel lug is stubborn & resists, you may screw the extension back on part way & do it over again but with the 3/8" bolt thru the lug & take both off at the same time.

Remington has also discontinued making extractors for these guns, #14669 which was 30-06 size riveted type & are the same that had been used on the 700, 740, 742, 760, 788. These extractors are riveted into the bolt & require a special rivet & tool to install. They however are currently available from Brownells in Iowa 1-800-471-0015.
 
Thanks ya'll!! You have given me the insight needed. A lot of the suggestions I have already tried. But after reading all your messages and some of the links, I think I will look into the extractor adjustment. The rifle and action were cleaned very well. The new extractor does look better than the old one with respect to wear. I did not mic them prior to replacement. I will with the next one if it comes to that. Thanks again and I will post back with my results. BTW this is the 1st 74X model I have had the opportunity to tinker with and just the breakdown of the rifle to thoroughly clean it was a learning experience.
 
It has been a while since I worked on this. All the advise above has been helpful. The chamber has been checked for any ruff spots and lightly cleaned using a brass brush and a hand drill. The gas port and system has been cleaned. All looks and feels good to my touch and sight.
I reinstalled the extractor after shaping it a into a bit larger diameter to make it 'reach out' and grab the case rim better. Prior to and after reassembly this worked well. When i test fired it I used Winchester factory ammo and it went thru four rounds without a hitch. So I ran a patch to clean and lube the chamber and barrel and put it up.
When I took it out to sight it in I thought it was good. Well the 1st round went down range and I made the scope adjustments. When i went to put a second round in the mag and load it, the 1st round case was still in the chamber. The bolt was locked open by the mag. The extractor will not grab it to remove it. A light push with a cleaning rod made it fall right out. So I tried to load another round and it did not fire and the round stays in the chamber. The extractor is not holding the round. Keeping the bolt open and point the rifle up and the round will drop out.
Using the spent case it will strip it from the mag and chamber it but the extractor does not hold it.
The shape of the extractor appears to have changed and no longer reaches out enough to engage the rim of the cartridge.

As I said earlier, I straightened the extractor somewhat to make it protrude a bit from the grove in which it lays (where it is riveted). It now appears to have been forced back into the grove far enough to not engage the shell rim. In reshaping the extractor should I have shortened it a little more to prevent it from being bent as the case is forced into its grip? I have much more time than I do money to work on this so any other recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks.
 
how smoothly does the extractor move in its groove? is it binding at all.
Also you said a round did not fire?

I had a remington 7400 and the only issues i ever had with it were when the chamber was rusted, otherwise it ran like a top.
 
Prior to this last failure, the extractor was fitted well in its grove. Not binding or loose. I have not disassembled it yet. Yes a round did not fire. Someone elsewhere advised me to look at the bolt face for any cracks or chips. He says even very small ones can cause extraction problems. That's what I will check next. The more I dive into this project, the more I think it is needs retirement.
But today I have to clean up the mess left by Mr. Gordon last night. Maybe tomorrow too.
 
Before tossing the rifle I think you need to try two things. Reload for it. If you have a small base die use that. Full length size the cases, load a 150 grain bullet with 47.0 grs IMR 4895, any case, any primer. This is a duplicate of the WW2 era service ball and it is just around 40,000 psia. It is not a hot load, and the pressure curve is appropriate for a gas gun.

Then, oil the cases and fire them oiled. I think the oil in your test of four rounds only lasted for four rounds. Once the chamber ran dry, the cases adhered to the chamber and stuck in the chamber. Oil the cases, see what happens.

A gas gun extractor should only hold the case against the bolt face. It should not extract the round. These guns are designed using the "residual blow back" effect, which means, gas pressure should pop the case out of the chamber. But gas pressure won't pop the case out of the chamber if pressures at unlock are too high.

My theory is that the cartridges you are using are "over gassed" and sticking to the chamber when the bolt unlocks. By lubricating the cases and using a lower pressure cartridge, I am of the opinion that your chances of successful extraction and ejection will be good.
 
The extractor is still available for it if you need to replace it. But, the under lying cause is a rough chamber. The only way I have made them work is hone the cylinder.

Another options that works in lube the bullets to keep them from sticking. Messy but it makes the gun function.
 
My 7400 tore the rims off when the chamber got rusty. They actually use the same extractor system as the 700s, and dinky as they maybe, they usually grab onto rims pretty good.... at least in my experience.

Dosent mean that's not the cause, or contributing to the issue, it's just I'd be mildly surprised if a properly installed extractor wouldn't leave some obvious signs (like a chunk of rim missing or mangled) when it pulled loose.

A.crack in the bolt wouldn't hugly surprise me either and it could exacerbate the extractor jumping. The failure to fire may also be a symptom, tho I'm not sure how it relates.
 
Here are my thoughts. Even if functioning perfectly there are many better options than a 742. I don't understand the logic in throwing good money after bad and spending the time and effort on one.
 
They can be gotten cheap and that is too tempting for some of us....I am more into the 760/7600s myself....

I came into a 742 from the original owner in North GA. That guns entire inner workings were pretty rusty which included the chamber and bore. The old guy said he still hunted with it the previous year before I got ahold of it and it shot well. I guess he mostly used it to shoot hogs over a bait pile 75 yards from the back porch. :confused: Im thinking he left the rifle on the back porch in the humidity.

The gun still functioned. It was really rusty though. I cleaned it up and ended up giving it to my dad. He said he had always wanted one.:what:
 
The problem lies in the fact the 742 is a “fast” action, meaning it will function faster than you can pull the trigger. This is because it is direct gas operation (no piston) vs a piston operation like a commercial BAR.
Short story is the bolt is trying to extract a hot case! This coupled with the fact most 742 owners never cleaned and oiled their chambers allowing them to rust and pit!
Test I ran was firing a full clip from a new 742 and a new BAR as fast I could physically pull the trigger. The 742 passed, the BAR failed. But it was all in the rifles design! The BARs are still shooting flawlessly when many 742s have been retired due to pitted chambers causing failure to extract.
Try this test- shoot one cartridge from each and immediately pick it up with bare fingers. You’ll see the difference!
Just my observations in 30 years of a rural gunshop.
 
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