Interesting, but not surprising view on open carry in political activities and race.

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hso

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-blacks-have-the-guns/?utm_term=.7d46beee9247

Which Americans support the Second Amendment? The answer depends on whether whites or blacks have the guns.
We presented people with a scenario in which a group is preemptively disarmed by the government. One-third of our respondents saw this story: “Earlier this month federal officers seized a large number of firearms, including handguns and assault rifles, from members of an anti-government activist group. A spokesman for the group says they are peaceful, and legally own all of the firearms seized in the raids.”

Another third saw the same story, but instead of the group in question being described ambiguously, these respondents were told that the group was “Posse Comitatus, a white anti-government activist group.” The remaining third were told that the group was the “Black Panthers, an African-American anti-government activist group.”

We then asked the respondents, “Do you think the government seizing firearms violates the group’s right to bear firearms?”

In addition, we also measured feelings toward blacks and whites by asking people to rate the groups on feeling thermometers that ranged from 0 (very cold) to 100 (very warm).

Here’s what we found

First, overall views of the government’s action did not depend on how the anti-government group was described. The same fraction of respondents — about 68 percent — said the government’s action violated the group’s rights, regardless of how that group was described.

[What political science can tell us about mass shootings]

But how the group was described did affect the way people’s racial attitudes were associated with their view of gun rights.

Among people who read about the Black Panthers, those holding warmer views toward whites than blacks were less likely to say that taking away guns violated the group’s rights. But among people who read about Posse Comitatus, the opposite was true: Those who viewed whites more warmly were more likely to say the group’s rights had been violated.
 
I've always thought that the RKBA should be promoted as being racially neutral. We have strayed from that because of political polarization and "dog whistles."
 
I have a bit of trouble with "trust issues" when it comes to articles in the Washington Post.
When reading the Post, the NY Times, the Wall Street Journal, etc., you have to separate the news items from the opinion.

Categorizing all news outlets as "liberal" or "conservative" is just another symptom of the polarization I was referring to. I have friends that only watch Fox News, and others that only watch MSNBC. They're all depriving themselves of the full spectrum of news and opinion.

BTW, the Post is well known for its antigun bias. It all originated from the shotgun suicide of its former publisher, Phil Graham. In a way, that's understandable.
 
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That's why I refuse to pay attention to any of the news organizations. I know where I stand and don't care how they want to sway me. I've said in a few different threads here that if you ask the right people you can get any poll results you want. Paint any picture of America you want. As far as I'm concerned I could care less what color you are or what organization you belong to. Our constitutional rights protect all U.S. CITIZENS. If you aren't a CITIZEN well...
 
Seems like all of them, not just WAPO, are able to find subtle ways to inject political bias even into what should be purely "news" articles.

Yeah, ya gotta have dam good B.S. filter to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
Sure wish every body would read the article instead of having a knee jerk reaction to the source.

The study that is being quoted found that Americans with Identity politics see more valid reasons for a 2A for groups that they identify with, and less for groups that they are in opposition to.

Liberals see more utility for 2A for groups they identify with. Same for Conservatives. People want to take away rights from groups they don’t identify with.

Now discuss.
 
That's why I refuse to pay attention to any of the news organizations. I know where I stand and don't care how they want to sway me.
There are least two problems with this approach. One is that you're insulated from new facts (regardless of the opinions expressed). Secondly, you have no idea what the other side is thinking, and are unable to respond accordingly.

Both facts and opinions are dynamic, not static. If you box yourself into a fixed defense, you are going to be outmaneuvered.
 
The study that is being quoted found that Americans with Identity politics see more valid reasons for a 2A for groups that they identify with, and less for groups that they are in opposition to.

Liberals see more utility for 2A for groups they identify with. Same for Conservatives. People want to take away rights from groups they don’t identify with.
That's the "zero-sum game" when it comes to guns. I'm stronger when I'm armed, and I'm also stronger when the other guy is disarmed. I have to confess that at one time I kind of felt this way. The problem lies in who gets to define the groups. You might very easily fall into the disadvantaged group.
 
Sure wish every body would read the article instead of having a knee jerk reaction to the source.

The study that is being quoted found that Americans with Identity politics see more valid reasons for a 2A for groups that they identify with, and less for groups that they are in opposition to.

Liberals see more utility for 2A for groups they identify with. Same for Conservatives. People want to take away rights from groups they don’t identify with.

Now discuss.

Not much to discuss, really. That's basic human nature. We tend to support and trust those we identify with, and vice versa.
 
When it comes to the 2A I am color blind. However, in this case with the Black Panthers being at the epicenter I am not. Black Panthers, especially in AL, have been considered by many to be a black terrorist group. I would be equally angered to see campaigning of the Muslim Brotherhood or Hamas supporting a candidate.
 
I would have liked to have read how respondents who "favored" blacks over whites reacted to the two non-neutral scenarios. All I saw was how "white-favoring" respondents reacted to the stories.
 
I have to admit I approached this with my norman wapo trepidation.

The overall 'thing' I got from it was surprise. That wapo was surprised that anyone felt the government had no right to take arms from people.

So, they then went to "the usual suspects," so, probably racisim was involved. Only to be surprised by that, as well.

Which is something that happens to people who never venture far from their own biases, their own "echo chambers"--the reality outside your own enclaves can surprise.
 
Let's be honest. Not all gun activists take a group-neutral approach to gun rights. I've been on gun sites where "conservatives" (I put the term in quotes) say that Democrats and liberals --"commies," in their parlance -- should not only be disarmed, but should be thrown from helicopters, a la Pinochet's Chile. Maybe that's in response to the gun-grabbers' rhetoric; I don't know. Maybe stuff like that leads, in turn, to certain leftists labeling the NRA as a terrorist organization. But, strangely, I've never seen the antigunners call for selective disarmament. Their proposals would apply to everyone across the board.

I'm glad this site tones down the overheated political rhetoric.
 
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Sure wish every body would read the article instead of having a knee jerk reaction to the source.
WAPO won't let me read the article unless I subscribe.


The study that is being quoted found that Americans with Identity politics see more valid reasons for a 2A for groups that they identify with, and less for groups that they are in opposition to.

Liberals see more utility for 2A for groups they identify with. Same for Conservatives. People want to take away rights from groups they don’t identify with.

This is like ho-hum study. Years ago someone did a study on group loyalties and found they're pretty strong REGARDLESS of how the group is chosen. Whether it's Dem/Repub, white/black, 2ndA/Anti2ndA or whatever it didn't matter, groups tend to be loyal to among themselves and against other groups. Even when the group identity in the study was based on coin toss members tended to prefer their group over the other. What muddles the water is that we all belong to many groups that don't always align on all issues. Ask black Republicans what that feels like.
 
Yeah, I read it.
I agree that taking people's guns away for disagreeing with the government is wrong.
But what's this "race" thing? I thought that everyone involved belonged to the human race!
Bringing up minor ethnic differences and labeling them "races" is so nineteenth century!
 
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And right here is the problem. At the end of the day we are all in the same group. The AMERICAN group. Too many people forget that. I place the blame for this on the media and the politicians as they constantly barrage us with identity politics.

Just a side note. When I was a young US Marine we would take jabs at the Army, they jabbed at the Navy, we all jabbed at the Air Force, but let some civilian take a jab at any of us and see what happened. Yeah we had our differences but when TSHTF we were on the same team and had each others backs. If the country could be more like that we would all have it made.
As long as we allow the politician and media to put us in groups and keep us from having each others backs.....they win and We The People lose.


QUOTE="alfsauve, post: 10976314, member: 60990"]WAPO won't let me read the article unless I subscribe.




This is like ho-hum study. Years ago someone did a study on group loyalties and found they're pretty strong REGARDLESS of how the group is chosen. Whether it's Dem/Repub, white/black, 2ndA/Anti2ndA or whatever it didn't matter, groups tend to be loyal to among themselves and against other groups. Even when the group identity in the study was based on coin toss members tended to prefer their group over the other. What muddles the water is that we all belong to many groups that don't always align on all issues. Ask black Republicans what that feels like.[/QUOTE]
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-blacks-have-the-guns/?utm_term=.7d46beee9247

Which Americans support the Second Amendment? The answer depends on whether whites or blacks have the guns.

Some of us were around and gun owners back in the mid to late 1960s in California. At that time it was legal to openly carry loaded firearms across the State. Some segments of our citizens, mostly blacks and Hispanics at the time, felt they were not just threatened but actively targeted by the police. They claimed that they had a right to be armed for self protection and demonstrated publicly often carrying rifles. One such demonstration was a mass march to the State capital to protest the situation. The result was a bill banning public carry of any loaded firearm that was proposed by a Republican legislator, passed and signed into law by Governor Ronald Reagan.

I color of the gun owner has long been an issue in the US and California in 1967 was simply one more example of that fact.
 
I read it.

And here's why I dont generally care for "news" like the washington post.
When they go to their findings, they show that there is a bias in the " people who felt more warmly towards whites" crowd.
Nowhere did they illustrate their findings in the "people who felt more warmly towards blacks" crowd.

Their goal was to show how whites have a bias, but conveniently omit that blacks may very well have the same bias. Hell, the control group that "felt more warmly towards whites" may very well have contained black participants! and vice versa. But, we'll never know, because they picked and chose the "facts" that suited whatever narrative they were attempting to get across.

My only problem with the black panthers carrying there, in support of abrams; They were advocating for a candidate who would gleefully strip them of the tools they were using to demonstrate their rights.
Duh!
 
2nd amendment rights are for every citizen of the country. When it comes to that right, the color of a person's skin has nothing at all to do with the fundamental right. that's it, full stop. If you find yourself contemplating that perhaps a certain color is a problem, you are the problem.

This is my major issue with the folks running around crying for gun control. They are actively campaigning to be stripped of their fundamental rights. Not too smart in the long run.
 
If I recall the OP and intent of this thread, the article and study show that people on the political left and right (regardless of their party’s leadership) can find a 2A justification for groups that they like.

I’m a glass half full guy, so this says to me that Americans in general can see the value of the 2A right. To me, that means 2A has more of a chance than I thought it did given the gun control and repeal RKBA rhetoric of the left.

When people are asked the question without being manipulated into a legislative “solution”, most see utility or justification for 2A at least for people they agree with. To me, that’s a starting point.
 
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