Hornady steps up! (10mm)

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I dont like it. Unless they changed the box or something at least. There are many 10s coming out. If everyone ups the power level, then how many will fail prematurely. Not that those numbers are particularly stout, but what if everyone starts shooting full (equal to the norma 200 gr at 1200+ fps) rounds. How many were designed for the weak rounds? I have quite a few 10mms and not all that many I'd trust to eat a constant diet of full bore 10mm. I'm betting a lot of 1911 owners would be complaining about premature wear. The glocks and smiths and perhaps the witness, have Been shooting it since it was in the original norma box but most were designed post-watered down ammo, and many in the last 2-3 years. I fear if many manufacturers go back to that level the 10mm will again get a reputation for battering guns
 
Yeah, but what barrel length were these shot from? 10 inches? lol.

About 10mm/.40 bullets not being built for the higher velocity of full power 10mm, my solution is make all 200 grain HP bullets for the higher velocity. They'll never see use in .40 S&W guns, so no point in watering 200 grain ammo down at all IMO. While I'm a person who normally likes a bit lighter bullet (115 in 9mm, 165 in .40 S&W are my preferred loads) when I shoot 10mm, I want the heaviest bullet I can get that's a hollow point. Sectional Density for a 200 grain 10mm is .179, while 230 grain .45 is .162, not to mention the 10mm would be traveling around 350 fps faster.
 
TTv2 said:
Yeah, but what barrel length were these shot from? 10 inches? lol.

About 10mm/.40 bullets not being built for the higher velocity of full power 10mm, my solution is make all 200 grain HP bullets for the higher velocity. They'll never see use in .40 S&W guns, so no point in watering 200 grain ammo down at all IMO. While I'm a person who normally likes a bit lighter bullet (115 in 9mm, 165 in .40 S&W are my preferred loads) when I shoot 10mm, I want the heaviest bullet I can get that's a hollow point. Sectional Density for a 200 grain 10mm is .179, while 230 grain .45 is .162, not to mention the 10mm would be traveling around 350 fps faster.
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5". So expect 15-20 fps less from a G20 and 90-100 less from a G29. I have the new Hornady catalog. Numbers are already changed there and on the new boxes. I've been emailing them monthly encouraging them to make some real 10mm. Now if they'd make the Critical Duty full steam.
 
crestoncowboy said:
Not that those numbers are particularly stout, but what if everyone starts shooting full (equal to the norma 200 gr at 1200+ fps) rounds. How many were designed for the weak rounds? I have quite a few 10mms and not all that many I'd trust to eat a constant diet of full bore 10mm. I'm betting a lot of 1911 owners would be complaining about premature wear. The glocks and smiths and perhaps the witness, have Been shooting it since it was in the original norma box but most were designed post-watered down ammo, and many in the last 2-3 years. I fear if many manufacturers go back to that level the 10mm will again get a reputation for battering guns
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Cooper's original specs were a 200gr at 1100, but they thought Norma wouldnt meet it, so they raised their request, but Norma beat their asked for numbers.

The only people that need to be careful are the ones that own early Delta Elite models. Seems like everything else can handle it.
 
Overkill338 said:
Cooper's original specs were a 200gr at 1100, but they thought Norma wouldnt meet it, so they raised their request, but Norma beat their asked for numbers.

The only people that need to be careful are the ones that own early Delta Elite models. Seems like everything else can handle it.
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I have access to several boxes of that original Norma Load. Those suckers are HOT.
 
crestoncowboy said:
I dont like it. Unless they changed the box or something at least. There are many 10s coming out. If everyone ups the power level, then how many will fail prematurely. Not that those numbers are particularly stout, but what if everyone starts shooting full (equal to the norma 200 gr at 1200+ fps) rounds. How many were designed for the weak rounds? I have quite a few 10mms and not all that many I'd trust to eat a constant diet of full bore 10mm. I'm betting a lot of 1911 owners would be complaining about premature wear. The glocks and smiths and perhaps the witness, have Been shooting it since it was in the original norma box but most were designed post-watered down ammo, and many in the last 2-3 years. I fear if many manufacturers go back to that level the 10mm will again get a reputation for battering guns
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SAAMI has 10mm specs. The guns should be designed to tolerate ammo of that spec.

Hotter rounds will accelerate wear on all firearms. That's not unique to 10mm.

I don't see how this is any different from the fact that there are .357 loads of various power levels available. The hotter ones will wear guns faster than the less-hot ones. Nothing special about 10mm here.
 
Exactly, no different than running hot 44 mag in a Smith 29, it will take it but will wear faster. Or +p in a 9mm
 
sabbfan said:
Or +p in a 9mm
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Here's a dirty little secret - it's not really the peak pressure that makes most of the wear difference, it's the total forces, which are mostly just the recoil calculation. If someone makes a 9mm that runs precisely at 35k PSI (and would thus qualify for non-+P marking) that manages to throw a 147gr pill at 986 fps, and someone else uses a faster powder to create a 38kPSI +P load that throws a 147 grain pill at 939 fps, the non+P load will do more wear in terms of locking lug wear, frame battering, trying to break sights and trigger pins, etc.

Sorry, I know that's a tiny bit of thread drift, but people often confuse the effects of pressure with the effects of newton's third law, which is what does a lot of the gradual/cumulative damage that comes from "hot" rounds. If the damage is coming directly from pressure, it's usually catastrophic stuff!
 
I have a newer delta that has handled some 200 @1200 fps hunting loads. Killed many deer. But your absolutely right. I don't think any of the 1911s can handle even medium volume of it. I think many of them will be battered loose before they get to the round counts people have come to expect from even the weakest of guns. I'm not talking about sudden failure after a couple hundred rounds, but cracked frames/ slide stops/ frame galling. Many people will never shoot enough to matter. But my early gen 3 glock is over 20 k. (Maybe a lot over but I do know that I'm on my 20th 1k of factory ammo plus many many reloads) the magazine started falling out when I would fire my hunting loads this season. I replaced the mag release, which was bradded out, as well as the spring and its good again. I have also replaced the recoil spring assembly, as a preventative measure.
The 357 various loads (as well as 44 mag, 45 colt etc) are almost entirely in revolvers, they aren't working to contain recoil while unlocking the action or stopping the slide. Not the same at all. Watered down rounds aren't unusual. But in a semi auto they are more so
The 10mm is unique in that I can think of no other semi- auto round that could only be bought loaded to 2/3 of its intended power for nearly all of its entire life.
I'm not saying that guns are going to self destruct. Saami ensures that. But I'm saying that the 10 will be catching the same crap about being hard on guns that it got 25 years ago, although most of the Glocks and Smiths from then are still going fine.
These guns were likely designed and tested with many thousands rounds from hornady, federal, bvac/ GA/ or even silver tips. I guarantee they didn't handload/ buy double tap/ nor find a bunch of old norma. I'm sure they proof fired, and function tested with a few hotter rounds, but you will hear complicating about busted up guns after a couple thousand rounds if many companies went to full bore loads.
How many here upgraded barrels and recoil springs/ used shock buffers, etc to safely fire full 200 gr @ 1200+ ammo. I know I did in many guns.
 
I don't shoot shoot a steady diet of them, but the Double Tap 200 gr Hardcast load at 1300 fps doesn't bother my G20 or G29 at all. I say bring it on. The Glock and now discontinued Smth 1006 series are the only ones I trust with those loads however. If I want a 1911 it'll be chambered in 45 ACP.
 
Overkill338 said:
5". So expect 15-20 fps less from a G20 and 90-100 less from a G29. I have the new Hornady catalog. Numbers are already changed there and on the new boxes. I've been emailing them monthly encouraging them to make some real 10mm. Now if they'd make the Critical Duty full steam.
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I've seen video of the C. Duty .40 S&W shot from a 16 inch carbine into gel, basically at the same velocity of warm 10mm from a pistol, and the bullet holds up fine. I was so impressed by Duty to not fall apart from high velocity that it's my personal choice for home defense PCCs.
 
In this case the xtp will hold up fine. Most of us who have hunted with a 10mm have loaded the xtp hotter than that for years. I've taken many deer with 180 and 200 grain xtp.
It's not my first choice for self defense, but when I'm carrying in the woods I wouldn't hesitate to use it. With decent placement I think it would be just fine. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it for sd.
 
TTv2 said:
I've seen video of the C. Duty .40 S&W shot from a 16 inch carbine into gel, basically at the same velocity of warm 10mm from a pistol, and the bullet holds up fine. I was so impressed by Duty to not fall apart from high velocity that it's my personal choice for home defense PCCs.
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I was carrying the Critical Duty in my G29. I've switched to 165 Gold Dots from Underwood.

crestoncowboy said:
In this case the xtp will hold up fine. Most of us who have hunted with a 10mm have loaded the xtp hotter than that for years. I've taken many deer with 180 and 200 grain xtp.
It's not my first choice for self defense, but when I'm carrying in the woods I wouldn't hesitate to use it. With decent placement I think it would be just fine. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it for sd.
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The XTP has a wide impact velocity window.

IMG-0489.jpg
 
If you're satisfied with LESS performance than the 10MM was designed for then by all means get a .40 S&W!

They watered down the .357 magnum terribly to keep it from wearing out the damnable little K- frame guns which IMHO, should never have been chambered in .357 Magnum in the first place.:thumbdown:
 
Not every round fired from a gun has to be the most powerful round that gun can handle. I fire a wide range of power levels in my 10mm's... to me, that's part of the beauty of that cartridge. It's the semi-auto equivalent of the .357 in terms of flexibility.

I drive a pretty quick car... but I don't floor it at every stoplight, and I don't hit 150 (or even 90) every time I get open road.
 
ATLDave said:
Not every round fired from a gun has to be the most powerful round that gun can handle. I fire a wide range of power levels in my 10mm's... to me, that's part of the beauty of that cartridge. It's the semi-auto equivalent of the .357 in terms of flexibility.

I drive a pretty quick car... but I don't floor it at every stoplight, and I don't hit 150 (or even 90) every time I get open road.
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I guess the way I look at it, if I want a .22 LR, I buy a .22 LR. If I want a .454 Casull, I buy a .4544 Casull.

Why download a 10MM when .40 S&W is universally available and far cheaper than 10MM??

In the shooting world, there is something specifically designed for almost any performance level you choose. Why not get what is designed for the job you wish to do?????
 
I competed in GSSF with a 10mm, because it was the only Glock I had. So I downloaded 10mm to around 900fps with 5.0gr of 231 and 180gr XTPs. Or 5.7gr of Unique. Very mild recoil and very accurate. Perfect for a match load.

Downloading 10mm seems to anger a lot of people for some reason.
 
Within saami spec, give it to me- hotter the better. If it gobbles up your gun then you have an excuse to get a new one.
Honestly though, when people worry about wearing out a gun its odd to me. As long as its a proper firearm its likely going to cost well over $10,000 in factory ammo to wear out a what $500-$1000 gun? Thats the price of shooting pleasure. If it only costs a couple hundred to wear out your gun then you got ripped off. Ive only really worn out one gun, maybe worn out is the wrong term. A sig 1911 , i used to be able to get ww2 era surplus 45acp for $50 for 2 shovel scoops and i just hammered that poor thing until the bushing was worn out, locking lugs were sloppy and the whole thing rattled (30,000 rounds i estimate but i really dont know). Still worked most of the time but accuracy suffered. Im sure the guy who bought it fixed her up though
 
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Obturation said:
Within saami spec, give it to me- hotter the better. If it gobbles up your gun then you have an excuse to get a new one.
Honestly though, when people worry about wearing out a gun its odd to me. As long as its a proper firearm its likely going to cost well over $10,000 in factory ammo to wear out a what $500-$1000 gun? Thats the price of shooting pleasure. If it only costs a couple hundred to wear out your gun then you got ripped off. Ive only really worn out one gun, maybe worn out is the wrong term. A sig 1911 , i used to be able to get ww2 era surplus 45acp for $50 for 2 shovel scoops and i just hammered that poor thing until the bushing was worn out, locking lugs were sloppy and the whole thing rattled (30,000 rounds i estimate but i really dont know). Still worked most of the time but accuracy suffered. Im sure the guy who bought it fixed her up though
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I've never seen a gun wear out, unless it was a 7mm STW, 7mm RUM, or something along those lines. Which I love those calibers, but the barrel throats are usually toast in 1000 rounds.

My Ruger P93DC probably has 50k or more rounds through it, and is still accurate enough to cut ragged holes off hand at 10 yards or off bags at 25.
 
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