8x57 Mauser & IMR-4350?

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kcofohio

kcofohio

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So I have some IMR-4350 (made in the '70s) that I would like to use up while it is still good. And the 8x57 is the only cartridge I reload for that can use it. Evidently, Hodgdon doesn't seem to think IMR version is ideal for 8mm, as they don't list it in their data. Lyman's "Historical Military Calibers" booklet list IMR-4350 at max load to be most accurate with Sierra 220 gr. SP, but in their 50th edition, Varget is.

The bullets I have are Sierra 150 gr. spitzer SP, Hornady's 170 gr. RN, and Sierra 200 gr. HPFMJ BT. The 200 gr., using Varget, showed promise with iron sights. Now I have a scope that needs zeroed in.

Has anyone found a combination of bullet weight that works well with 4350? The loads will be used mainly for target at 100 yds. I don't expect the rifle (surplus '41 build) to be a 1 MOA. Just hoping I can keep it on the paper. :)

Thanks for any info that can be had.
 
I wouldn't be afraid to start a work up with IMR 4350 for 8 mm Mauser. I use it solely for .243 Win and 30-06. 8mm isn't that different.
I started out with IMR 4895 in my 8mm Mauser and bigtime, found an accuracy load for Hornady's cheap 150gr interlock bullets so I never went any further with it.
I was shooting 500 yds with it with really good results, I wouldn't be afraid to work up the same with IMR 4350, I just never needed to, after I found that load for my rifle.
Lyman's 49th edition shows 150 and 170 gr loads in IMR4350 but does not have a 200gr load.
I think 8mm Mauser is a fantastic caliber, it sure is hell on deer.
 
Lyman shows compressed charges with it being the lowest velocity powder, or second lowest.
No pressure data is given for any of the 4350 loads, which means it's low enough they don't want you to know what it is.
Accuracy would probably be good, but I only used IMR 4064 in 8x57.
 
BFH_auto
It does show compressed charges at max load but it is a slow powder and kcofohio needs to use it up.
No, it's not ideal but he doesn't need to load max loads with it either. He did say he wanted to burn it up so he didn't waste it.
I think to, they would be accurate and pleasant to shoot. If he has several pounds of it maybe it would be worth using it instead of wasting it. If he only has one pound of it, and doesn't want to waste the bullets, if it were me because of how old it is, I would dump it on my yard and get some IMR 4895 or Varget or something the bigger bore would find more user friendly.
But is definitely usable with heavier bullets.
As far as pressure, your probably right. Would it ring a barrel with 150gr bullets, it could since most military Mausers were long barreled rifles.
Mine has a 28.5" barrel on it and with 150gr bullets it could ring the barrel. He probably ought to stay with 220gr bullets with IMR4350.
Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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tightgroup tiger said:
BFH_auto
It does show compressed charges at max load but it is a slow powder and kcofohio needs to use it up.
No, it's not ideal but he doesn't need to load max loads with it either. He did say he wanted to burn it up so he didn't waste it.
I think too they would be accurate and pleasant to shoot. If he has several pounds of it maybe it would be worth using it instead of wasting it. If he only has one pound of it, and doesn't want to waste the bullets, if it were me because of how old it is, I would dump it on my yard and get some IMR 4895 or Varget or something the bigger bore would find more user friendly.
But is definitely usable with heavier bullets.
As far as pressure, your probably right. Would it ring a barrel with 150gr bullets, it could since most military Mausers were long barreled rifles.
Mine has a 28.5" barrel on it and with 150gr bullets it could ring the barrel. He probably ought to stay with 220gr bullets with 4350.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Click to expand...
I was saying don't use it. I was just saying why Hogdon didn't list it.
I would seat them long and work up till I got accuracy.
 
They are close, but not exactly the same. For example, 30-06 180 gr. bullets have data for both 4350's. It is within 1 grain and velocities are very similar.

Start low and work up, as always.
 
Bfh_auto said:
Lyman shows compressed charges with it being the lowest velocity powder, or second lowest.
No pressure data is given for any of the 4350 loads, which means it's low enough they don't want you to know what it is.
Accuracy would probably be good, but I only used IMR 4064 in 8x57.
Click to expand...
When I did a compressed load last time with 4350, I couldn't get the full powder weight into the case, even with tapping to settle the powder.
Can't remember what bullet that was.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
BFH_auto
It does show compressed charges at max load but it is a slow powder and kcofohio needs to use it up.
No, it's not ideal but he doesn't need to load max loads with it either. He did say he wanted to burn it up so he didn't waste it.
I think to, they would be accurate and pleasant to shoot. If he has several pounds of it maybe it would be worth using it instead of wasting it. If he only has one pound of it, and doesn't want to waste the bullets, if it were me because of how old it is, I would dump it on my yard and get some IMR 4895 or Varget or something the bigger bore would find more user friendly.
But is definitely usable with heavier bullets.
As far as pressure, your probably right. Would it ring a barrel with 150gr bullets, it could since most military Mausers were long barreled rifles.
Mine has a 28.5" barrel on it and with 150gr bullets it could ring the barrel. He probably ought to stay with 220gr bullets with IMR4350.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Click to expand...
I will load up some of the Sierra 200 gr. and try that out.
 
Thanks for all the replies! I hate tossing good powder and I don't know many reloaders. If I knew someone who would use it, it would be theirs'. As I don't plan on getting anymore of it. :)
 
Have you checked the powder to make it's still good, if it was made in the 70's it will be in a steel can. I dumped a can of my 1980s IMR 3031 into a cookie sheet and I had a lot of rust in it, I saw a red dust coming up from it. It still smelled ok but that one of the first signs it's starting to break down.
I ended up dumping it.
Good luck.
 
Lyman has IMR 4350 loads for 150 and 170 gr 8mm. For some reason, they don't show pressures for 4350 but velocity runs lower than several other powders even with a compressed load, so it isn't high.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
Have you checked the powder to make it's still good, if it was made in the 70's it will be in a steel can. I dumped a can of my 1980s IMR 3031 into a cookie sheet and I had a lot of rust in it, I saw a red dust coming up from it. It still smelled ok but that one of the first signs it's starting to break down.
I ended up dumping it.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
It has been a couple years since I used it. It looked and smelled normal then. I will recheck later today or tomorrow.
 
There's an article on 8x57 Mauser in the current edition of Handloader by Mike Venturino.

"Upon taking up 8mms Mauser loading, intuition suggested IMR 4350 would be the best propellant - wrong." ( Italics, his).

This matches my own experience. I tested extensively for the 8x57 in my sporterized M49 Persian Mauser and came to the same conclusion Venturino did: Varget for 195-200 grs bullets. IMR 4895, IMR 4064, and IMR 8208 xbr all worked, in that order of performance, but Varget has the best velocities and consistency even in the short M49 barrel. Venturino has two IMR 4350 loads showing 80 - 120 fps off Varget.

Hope this helps.
 
You said that powder is from the 70s you may want to try older load data because powder manufacturers change recipes over time.
If you have one try to find a Speer #9 or 10 for data. I have the #10 will look up if you want.
 
IMG_20190108_071057.jpg IMG_20190108_071254.jpg IMG_20190108_071511.jpg IMG_20190108_071437.jpg
These are from Speer #11 mamual published 1988.
The 150 gr data is identical for powder weights. The pic of that didn't upload.
The 200 gr starts at 49 gr min to 53 gr Max.
 

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Thanks! I have Hornady's Volume II. Publish in '73. It list 125 gr., 150 gr., and 170 gr. bullets. IMR-4350 was still about the slowest then.

I'm beginning to think case capacity, or lack of, plays a part the lower velocity.
 
I see no reason whatsoever you can't use IMR 4350 in your 8mm. As others have mentioned, it's a very wide ranging powder and I use it in both my .243 and .280 Rem as well as my Dad uses the same charge(different bullet) in his .270. All very accurate and all see very low standard deviation on the chrono. So long as powder is kept dry...it'll stay good for a long time.
 
kcofohio said:
View attachment 820100
Thanks! I have Hornady's Volume II. Publish in '73. It list 125 gr., 150 gr., and 170 gr. bullets. IMR-4350 was still about the slowest then.

I'm beginning to think case capacity, or lack of, plays a part the lower velocity.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. The diameter is larger than the 30-06 while the case size is smaller. This makes it build less pressure with the same powder.
 
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