Winchester 124 grain NATO any good?

I guess I am belaboring the point, but you cannot just throw out a maximum case pressure spec without also specifying the protocol by which it is measured. In the last post, the 35,000 psi spec for 9 mm Luger P ammunition and 38,500 psi for +P ammunition is per the SAAMI testing protocol, and the 36,500 psi spec for the NATO load is per the C.I.P. protocol. The SAAMI protocol is used widely in the US, but in most European nations the C.I.P. protocol dominates.

Both SAAMI and C.I.P. use piezo-electric pressure transducers but they use different transducers. More importantly, in the SAAMI protocol, the transducer is inserted into a hole drilled in the test barrel a given distance from the case mouth and that distance varies with different calibers. In the C.I.P. method, the transducer is inserted directly into a drilled case at a distance 25mm from the breech face if the cartridge is long enough to allow. For cartridge cases too short to allow that position, the transducer is positioned in the cartridge case a specified distance from the breech face that again varies with caliber.

Not surprisingly, the two different methods will yield different pressure readings even with exactly the same cartridge loaded the same way in the same test barrel. Sometimes the C.I.P. method yields a pressure less than the SAAMI method and sometimes it yields a greater pressure. For example, in the case of 9 mm Luger and .45 ACP the C.I.P. protocol yields a lower pressure than SAAMI but for .44 Magnum the C.I.P. pressure is greater than SAAMI.

The Pmax for standard pressure 9 mm Luger per the C.I.P. protocol is 34,084 psi. The Pmax for 9x19 mm NATO is 36,500 psi, again by the same protocol, so the Pmax for the NATO load is 2,416 psi. greater than standard pressure. That makes ithe NATO load 7.1% "hotter" per the C.I.P. protocol.

C.I.P. does not to my knowledge set pressure standards for +P ammunition in the way the SAAMI does for some calibers. The pressure standards for standard pressure and +P 9 mm Luger ammunition per the SAAMI protocol are 35,000 and 38,500 psi respectively, making the Pmax for 9 mm +P 10% higher per the SAAMI testing protocol.

I have used it for practice in full size 9mm handguns without any problems. A little hotter than standard but no problem in any modern gun in good condition. I used it mostly in a Beretta 92 FS but it worked fine in any other gun as well.

I've fired that in just about every modern handgun and SMG made. Probably wouldn't run it through something like an old Luger though.

Ballistics are very close to the 124 HST that I carry so it makes an excellent, much less expensive, practice round that simulates my carry round's recoil....plus my CZ Scorpion pistol loves the stuff.

herrwalther said:

Any junk ammo will work to break in a firearm

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If I have a malfunction in my EDC it really shakes my confidence. On the Kahr Talk forum I noticed that the people who were having the most trouble with their brand-new CM9s were people who were shooting cheap 115gr practice ammo, like Blazzer Brass, and having stove pipes. The people who weren't having trouble were shooting hotter ammo out of their new CM9s

When I purchased my Kahr CM9, I used 124gr "NATO" ammunition for the first 500 or so rounds and I never had a problem with it cycling. When I say NATO - I mean 124gr FMJ rated at or near 1200 fps from a 5" barrel. Fifty rounds of the Winchester Ranger RA9124N (NATO) and 200 rounds of the Georgia Arms 124gr "NATO" I considered those 250 rounds the "Break In" rounds. I think I fired another 250 rounds of +P something or other through it after that - I can't remember, it's been a while.

But anyway, I've never had a malfunction with it, and I like that a lot.

Now it eats 115gr WWB, 115gr Federal Champion and 115gr Blazzer Brass without a hitch.

Oh I just remembered the other ammo I used to break in my CM9.

It wasn't +P stuff, it was that ZQI ammo - 123gr ZQI “NATO” FMJ.

I haven't seen that ammo around in a while and I totally forgot about it.

JDR said:

As a matter of fact this past Saturday I shot the Win 124 gr. NATO ammo and the regular WWB ammo through my Glock 17. Given a choice between the 2 Win ammos, I’d take the NATO stuff, but I do think there is better ammo to be had from other manufacturers, such as Fed AE, Fiocchi, and Blazer Brass if given the option at point-of-purchase.

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My Glock 17 seems to prefer the NATO to the WWB too.

Horsemen, FWIW over the last ~20 years, I have used I don't know how many thousands of rounds of the Winchester Q4318 9MM NATO ammo in a variety of 9mm pistols,revolvers and carbines. In spite of all the concerns I've seen on enthusiast forums about use of NATO ammo, I have not detected any adverse consequences in long term use of this ammo. In fact I prefer the NATO for breaking in guns like 1911 9mms. The 9mm 1911 types I've owned, Colts, Kimbers, Dan Wessons and and one STI, all had the same weight slides as used for 45 ACP, 10MM, 38 Super, 9X23 Winchester, 45 Super,etc. The slightly greater recoil impulse of the NATO ammo ensured reliable cycling, and locking open on empty magazine, of these guns with heavy for 9mm slides. I've also used about ~2K rounds of the 124 grain IMI NATO. Same excellent performance.

I have also had good luck with the IMI 124 grain 9 mm FMJ NATO ammunition.

If you want a cheaper alternative to practicing with 124gr SD ammo, this is a good pick. Chronos nearly exactly the same avg as 124gr HST out of my G19.

Edited to add: I'm referring specifically to Winchester NATO

NATO spec 9x19 has a little extra pop, but not enough to pay the premium to me. Probably is a better choice for break ins, the extra power will work that stiff recoil spring and tight slide better.