LaPierre asked to resign

jonb32248 said:

I've never gotten a job from a poor guy or an average guy. Rich people got their money by working for it and providing jobs for us shlubs. No trump isn't a fascist, look up the meaning. If anybody was the big O was.

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And so rich people should be paid off with money that won't be there for our children? They gave you a job because they needed you in order to make money for themselves, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

If the English language does not mean to you what it means to most other folks, what hope do we have of ever agreeing? I did look up fascism and find that it describes Trump in every aspect. Utra-nationalism, tolerance of brutality and violence, racism, threatening of the press... It is all there. Every bit of it. How on Earth does any of that apply to Obama?

rpenmanparker said:

But you specifically disallow such consideration and moderation of the 2A. Why is that?

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Because dialogue has changed from "reasonable" gun control measures to "outright ban".

I believe many gun owners over the decades went along with "reasonable" gun control measures such as "reasonable" use of free speech you cite. But when anti-gun/2A crowd came out and pushed for gun ban, that's when things changed for me.

How would you respond to push for outright ban on free speech?


Can we get back to OP discussion before moderator locks this thread?

BTW, THR forum rules reminder - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?pages/code-of-conduct/

"1. All topics and posts must be related to firearms or 'Right to Keep and Bear Arms' (RKBA) issues."

rpenmanparker said:

And so rich people should be paid off with money that won't be there for our children? They gave you a job because they needed you in order to make money for themselves, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

If the English language does not mean to you what it means to most other folks, what hope do we have of ever agreeing? I did look up fascism and find that it describes Trump in every aspect. Utra-nationalism, tolerance of brutality and violence, racism, threatening of the press... It is all there. Every bit of it. How on Earth does any of that apply to Obama?

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You need a new dictionary. Fascism is a dictatorship in which the government controls the country's main means of economic progress.
The factors you list could belong to any government despite what type it is.
Plus, Trump is none of what you list. The closest is threatening of the press, but even that is horribly specious; what Trump has disdained is phony, or fake news. Of THAT, there's been plenty over the past few years.

I predict a thread lock unless discussion returns back to OP and RKBA.

So, why was "LaPierre asked to resign"?

bds said:

I predict a thread lock unless discussion returns back to OP and RKBA.
.....

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I've been HOPING for that!

Tommygunn said:

What b.s. "Balancing needs and revenues??" I bet you think Obama did a wonderful job of that now that our national debt topped twenty trillion dollars.
The tax break has done much to improve our economy. Considering how hard it is to give a even tax break to Americans, considering the lower half of income earners pay so little, or even no income tax, it was done very well.
It is in truth very hard to give people a substantial income tax break given our progressive tax system. But whining about giving the rich a break is just bullet-point liberal whine.

As for Trump being a latent or real fascist, that is pure TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME.

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Oh c'mon Tommy. He didn't give the rich a tax break. He gave them A TRILLION DOLLARS! Just a few people. And furthermore considering the debt, none of us needed a tax break. I surely didn't need one.

Yes the debt went up because we were in a tough bind and had to spend money to get out of it. But Trump threw money at his cronies and did as much damage in just a few days. None of that extra debt that Trump has buried us in was needed. But he can do no wrong. That is the true TDS, thinking he is wonderful. The man is a thief. He has stolen from everyone he ever did business with and now he is doing it to us. He has taken our money, our honor, our self-respect, everything we ever had. And if you don't honor him as he thinks proper, he will abandon you in a second. Why, oh why would you so love such a con artist, fraud, a man whose only thoughts and actions are of the ugliest kind? A man who hates everyone including himself. I just can't understand where decency has gone in this country.

Good grief, full-blown TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME.


NO WONDER we're not supposed to do politics!.

That’s a good, very quick read.

I agree guns are about individual liberty. Anyone I support with votes or money must believe that individual liberty is necessary and good, but not just in regard to guns.

While guns are one thing, the NRA fails to consistently support other forms of liberty - both in their rhetoric and their support of anti-liberty politicians. It’s not that I want their active support for things outside their lane, but I want them to shut up about it if they’re not coming down on the side of liberty.

That’s why the NRA doesn’t have my support.

I measure liberty in its totality and when I do that it’s not always the side you’d expect to come out on top. That said, if you’re against ANY liberty, you don’t have my support.

For what’s its worth, liberal doesn’t equal liberty - neither does conservative. My disdain for the current POTUS (and the last 3 POTUSes) doesn’t make me anti-2A. The “us versus them” tribalistic attitude is why we had the 2016 choice...lack of a real choice...we had.

Gun rights are not more important to me than the 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, and 15th amendments. I refuse to acquiesce to the other nonsense in the name of ONE right out of several.

The NRA supports and is supported by people who love the 2A. Great! Some of those same people who love the 2A would love to re-criminalize personal conduct they don’t like, speech with which they don’t agree, and perpetuate a multi-tiered justice system. Not great.

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Absoluty!

Trading one liberty for another one is a non-starter for me. That's the reason I disagree with the rhetoric I see coming from the NRA and the present administration. It's no different than me, or anyone else for that matter, saying that the ownership of semi-auto rifles isn't important even tho I'm not a fan of AR's. I've never owned a bump stock, but I just can't see how the perception of making those illegal to own addresses the situation of violent crime with a firearm. The logic is flawed. If the banning of bump stocks is a solution then the regulation of semi-auto rifles and standard capacity magazines is also a solution. It's a recipe for disaster and a threat to your RKBA. I'm against all of it and vote to curb it where ever I can.

The federal gov't has no business regulating any more firearms and associated devices......period. That should be left up to the voters and state legislators. If they get out of line with the constitution then the courts should decide. Nothing good will ever come out of congress or any administration regarding your RKBA. History has proven that many times. It's bad enough that states regulate but this is a republic, the form of gov't that was envisioned by the founders. Let the people decide what gun control they wish to have.

This is exactly what the author in that link that GEM reference in post #223 was talking about. Individual Liberties.

A friend of mine just summed this entire thing up for me in one sentence that I would have otherwise needed a paragraph or two to make clear.

"The NRA needs to be single-issue... and hard line."

And for some years now it has not been. This isn't a new problem. Harlon Carter way back when nearly caused me never to join in the first place. Stick to Second Amendment issues and the politics surrounding those issues while maintaining training, safety, and all of the other programs the NRA has always maintained AND NOTHING ELSE.

My problem with this current fracas is that I don't care for Wayne Lapierre and have not for many years now. At the same time though I definitely do not like Oliver North and have not going all the way back to Iran Contra. I feel he was a terrible choice for president - ceremonial or not.

I am generally always in favor of Letting the Sun Shine In. Audit the books so the greater membership can see where the money is going, fire who needs to be fired, then let's get back to the business of protecting our Second Amendment rights and infrastructure.

We've got a hell of a battle coming up next year so let's get this over with quickly.

CoalTrain49 said:

I've never owned a bump stock, but I just can't see how the perception of making those illegal to own addresses the situation of violent crime with a firearm. The logic is flawed. If the banning of bump stocks is a solution then the regulation of semi-auto rifles and standard capacity magazines is also a solution. It's a receipt for disaster and a threat to your RKBA. I'm against all of it and vote to curb it where ever I can.

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Yes, I agree and glad GOA is suing ATF.

Especially when bump stock was OK by Obama and ATF made a determination in 2010 that is was not a regulated item.

So what changed?

Whatever changed was arbitrary and without sufficient justification and history. And why would LaPierre/NRA support such a thing?

How would you respond to push for outright ban on free speech?

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I'm sure it is being considered.......

And bump stock was OK by Obama and ATF made a determination that is was not a regulated item.

So what changed?

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POTUS???

deadin said:

bds said:

How would you respond to push for outright ban on free speech?

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I'm sure it is being considered.......

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I highly doubt many supporting this.

deadin said:

bds said:

Especially when bump stock was OK by Obama and ATF made a determination in 2010 that is was not a regulated item.

So what changed?

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POTUS???

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And believe me, many are not happy about that either.

Both LaPierre and Trump needs to do breakfast and smell the coffee.

Is there a way to get in touch directly with NRA board members?

I sent a general comment through the NRA website stating my displeasure with Lapierre and that the NRA will receive no more donations while he is in charge and Dana Loesch is a spokesperson, but who knows if that will ever make it to the right audience.

deadin said:

POTUS???

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All the warning signs were there.

bassjam said:

Is there a way to get in touch directly with NRA board members?

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Found this from another forum.

At the "Contact the NRA Board Member" link, there is "Every NRA Board Member" box you can check.

https://www.theguncollective.com/nra


Communications intended for any member of the NRA Board of Directors should be addressed to: (Name of Board member), NRA Office of the Secretary,

11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030; or [email protected]; or (703)267-1021. Please include your name, contact information and NRA membership I.D. number, as only communications from NRA members will be forwarded.

Contact one or more NRA board of directors members: Web Base NRA Board of Directors Link

Email addresses follow a naming convention (first letter of first name followed by last name @ nrahq.org; e.g. [email protected])

NRA Board of Directors (Tom Selleck is listed but no longer board member. Heck, I would contact him anyways and ask him to be part of NRA board again):

Joe M. Allbaugh, Oklahoma
William H. Allen, Tennessee
Thomas P. Arvas, New Mexico
Scott L. Bach, New Jersey
William A. Bachenberg, Pennsylvania
Bob Barr, Georgia
Ronnie G. Barrett, Tennessee
Clel Baudler, Iowa
J. Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio
Matt Blunt, Virginia
Dan Boren, Oklahoma
Robert K. Brown, Colorado
Pete R. Brownell, Iowa
Dave Butz, Illinois
Ted W. Carter, Florida
Richard R. Childress, North Carolina
Patricia A. Clark, Connecticut
Allan D. Cors, Florida
Charles L. Cotton, Texas
David G. Coy, Michigan
Larry E. Craig, Idaho
John L. Cushman, New York
R. Lee Ermey, California
Edie P. Fleeman, North Carolina
M. Carol (Bambery) Frampton, South Carolina
Joel Friedman, Nevada
Sandra S. Froman, Arizona
Marion P. Hammer, Florida
Maria Heil, Pennsylvania
Graham Hill, Virginia
Steve Hornady, Nebraska
Susan Howard, Texas
Curtis S. Jenkins, Georgia
David A. Keene, Maryland
Tom King, New York
Timothy Knight, Tennessee
Herbert A. Lanford Jr., South Carolina
Willes K. Lee, Hawaii
Karl A. Malone, Louisiana
Sean Maloney, Ohio
Robert E. Mansell, Arizona
Carolyn D. Meadows, Georgia
Bill Miller, West Virginia
Owen Buz Mills, Arizona
Craig Morgan, Tennessee
Grover G. Norquist, Washington, D.C.
Oliver L. North, Virginia
Robert Nosler, Oregon
Johnny Nugent, Indiana
Ted Nugent, Texas
Lance Olson, Iowa
Melanie Pepper, Texas
James W. Porter II, Alabama
Peter J. Printz, Montana
Todd J. Rathner, Arizona
Kim Rhode, California
Wayne Anthony Ross, Alaska
Carl T. Rowan Jr., Washington, D.C.
Don Saba, Arizona
William H. Satterfield, Alabama
Mercedes Schlapp, Virginia
Ronald L. Schmeits, New Mexico
Esther Q. Schneider, Texas
Steven C. Schreiner, Colorado
Tom Selleck, California
John C. Sigler, Delaware
Leroy Sisco, Texas
Bart Skelton, New Mexico
Dwight D. Van Horn, Idaho
Blaine Wade, Tennessee
Linda L. Walker, Ohio
Howard J. Walter, North Carolina
Heidi E. Washington, Michigan
Allen B. West, Texas
Robert J. Wos, Florida
Donald E. Young, Alaska


And if you really want to send LaPierre your piece of mind:

Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President
Business Phone: (703)267-1020
Alternate Number: (703) 757-5860
Business Fax: (703) 267-3989
Email: [email protected]

And

Christopher W Cox
Executive Director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action
Business Phone: 703-267-1250
Email: [email protected]

Email away!

Looks like Ollie's out and Wayne is secure.

I'm not going to participate in NRA bashing, as that's just what the lib-turds want us to do...divide and conquer and all that.

Rather I'm going to renew my membership early and send them a check.

SSN Vet said:

I'm not going to participate in NRA bashing

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Even in good marriage, disagreements will happen. Just because you have some arguments doesn't mean marriage is bad. Key is "working through" the disagreements.

I think NRA members voicing their concerns is similar. And NRA can "work through" the expressed concerns to become even more effective organization. I think NRA's position on bump stock ban really pissed off some members. Time to talk. Decision is up to LaPierre and NRA Board of Directors what happens next to NRA.

Seems like the NRA has been the prime mover behind the most important 2A victories in the last decade.

I'm not too much concerned about bump stock bans, as they have (imo) always been a device that thwarts the technical definition of a machine gun, and give us all a bad name.

Machine guns are legal (at least in free states they are) and if I want one, I can plop my money down to buy one.

Some NYC prosecutor who labels the NRA a terrorist organization and then goes after their tax status is the real enemy of freedom.

I don't expect the NRA senior leadership to serve PB&Js to prove their being thrifty with my $. And I suspect their salaries are in line with other major non-profits, such as the Red Cross or AARP.

Olie has been a slippery one for years. Backing his marketing firm sugar daddies in their spat with the NRA was both self serving and stupid.

SSN Vet said:

Machine guns are legal (at least in free states they are) and if I want one, I can plop my money down to buy one.

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Precisely.

And bump stock could have been the same.

SSN Vet said:

I'm not too much concerned about bump stock bans, as they have (imo) always been a device that thwarts the technical definition of a machine gun, and give us all a bad name.

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No, that's not the real issue here.

As Gun Owners of America's lawsuit against ATF argued, in 2010, ATF determined that bump stock was not a regulated item. But that determination arbitrarily changed after LV shooting without proper justification and history.

NRA's concern and gun owners' concern should be arbitrary change of determination as what's to keep ATF from keep making arbitrary determination change to other guns and gun accessories that are currently legal?

rpenmanparker said:

Of course that is not the opinion of the Nobel Laureate economist Paul Krugman. But you can't trust his opinion since he is a liberal.

Trumps goals for economic growth have been shown time and again to be unsustainable. When you push the economy too hard, as he continues to try to do by browbeating the Fed, it just falls apart. 3% should work fine. But his goals of 5% and more cannot be sustained. That is what leads to boom-bust cycles.

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Lol, you actually use the far Left New York Times Paul Krugman? Dude, you gotta be a Liberal at heart. Paul Krugman? OMG! You have not figured out by now the Times is a propaganda machine. Do you also watch CNN?
And on the other post, when I mentioned that a President Like Trump is has a ton of serious Business success and acumen, that a guy like him can make a Protit for this country. You missed the point. It was analogy to mean wealth, in the form of Jobs, trade agreement, etc. All of what he has been doing. For God sake, Obama jump in with the tragic. Obamacare crapola. And a Constant messenger for anti guns. You are others condem Trump and say he does not do enough for gun rights, But Hey what about Obama? Do you actually want another one. How far do you think we would go before he crashed this country?