Glock anomaly.
- Thread starter whughett
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rskent
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AK103K
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One thing I ran into early on with my reloads and the Glocks was that what I had loaded for my other 9mm's, were just to weak to cycle my Glocks. Once I bumped the load up towards the upper end of the data, the gun ran fine.
This was an issue early on with the Glocks even with factory ammo, and Glock actually sent a letter around to the dealers recommending that you shoot IMI/UZI black tip "carbine" 9mm or similar out of them.
OP
OP
whughett
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I know man. Just messing with ya. I’m strictly a “load by the manual” guy, so I suspect there are areas I’ve never entered.
Out of curiosity what would I do different for a Glock specific load. I ask because this whole thing started with me loading for this particular Glock. Like I mentioned it’s the oldest sons gun and I wanted to load up 500 rounds.
There is also a S&W 49, a Walther PPS, a Walther AC41 P38 and PT92 available.. I load and shoot a variety of calibers of autos and revolvers and recognize the benefits of “tailored” Ammo. At my age I can’t shoot at that level any longer.
AK103K
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I follow the manuals too, and normally dont push the envelope, but sometimes, just the difference in the manuals does that, depending on which one you go with. Hornady seems to be a bit overly cautious/conservitive. I use Hornady, Speer, and Sierra manuals for moat things and usually cross-reference to check.
Lately, Ive switched to Unique for most of my handgun ammo, and for 9mm, Ive been loading 124 grain fmj's over 5.5 grains of it. Most of what I shoot 9mm, is out of Glocks, and it cycles and shoots well in all of mine. I also shoot the same ammo out of Browning HP's, a SIG P228, and a Walther P1. No problems there.
Back in the late 70's, early 80's, the 9mm I was loading was for WWII era guns, an HK P7M13, and a couple of subguns. The loads werent "hot" at all, and cycled everything. Got my first Glock, and it wouldnt run at all on what I had loaded. Bumped that up a bit, and they ran fine, and so did everything else.
Lately, Ive switched to Unique for most of my handgun ammo, and for 9mm, Ive been loading 124 grain fmj's over 5.5 grains of it. Most of what I shoot 9mm, is out of Glocks, and it cycles and shoots well in all of mine. I also shoot the same ammo out of Browning HP's, a SIG P228, and a Walther P1. No problems there.
Back in the late 70's, early 80's, the 9mm I was loading was for WWII era guns, an HK P7M13, and a couple of subguns. The loads werent "hot" at all, and cycled everything. Got my first Glock, and it wouldnt run at all on what I had loaded. Bumped that up a bit, and they ran fine, and so did everything else.
LiveLife
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I would check every reloaded round to ensure they fall freely into chamber with a "plonk" and fall out freely.
I would also inspect the case rim for damage and ensure case rim slides up freely inside the extractor without hang up. Also, inspect the extractor/area as if there is hard build up at the extractor, this could affect feeding/chambering of rounds.
I would also shoot one magazine of factory ammo first before shooting reloads to rule out issues with pistol/magazine.
Looking forward to your range report.
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I was having a problem with my G19 and thought it was the gun. Bought a bullet comparator, solved the problem. It was some of my reloads that were a little out of shape even though I full resize everything. So now I drop every round in the comparator. I find a few here and there that go in hard or stick up a tiny bit but problem has gone away.Slide was not going all the way into battery, I thought it was the RSA. Changed it but still did it once in awhile. Gun runs so good. Very simple gun to own.
LiveLife
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Your Recoil Spring Assembly (RSA) is installed incorrectly.
The back of RSA needs to be inserted in the rounded cutout of the barrel (middle notch, not the bottom notch)
This is your RSA installed down to the bottom notch
This picture shows rounded cutout in the middle notch
This picture shows RSA installed in the middle notch
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whughett
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LiveLife: Figured that. To 78 year arthritic fingers that’s a stiff spring.
The third picture in LiveLife's post above shows the proper position for the recoil spring assembly. Note that it may move slightly during use and may not be in exactly that position upon disassembly.
If there is an issue with the recoil spring assembly being installed improperly, it can usually be diagnosed by the recoil spring guide protruding an unusual amount from the front of the slide. It's a pain to fix, but it won't lock the slide after only 1/4" of travel, you usually get a lot more travel than that before it stops. In fact, you can usually come within about a half inch of being able to lock the slide all the way back before things sort of jam.
The problem described in the first post sounds like an ammo issue assuming that the gun's chamber/leade are within spec.
Is that right?
How do you finally get the slide open? Sheer force?
If there is an issue with the recoil spring assembly being installed improperly, it can usually be diagnosed by the recoil spring guide protruding an unusual amount from the front of the slide. It's a pain to fix, but it won't lock the slide after only 1/4" of travel, you usually get a lot more travel than that before it stops. In fact, you can usually come within about a half inch of being able to lock the slide all the way back before things sort of jam.
The problem described in the first post sounds like an ammo issue assuming that the gun's chamber/leade are within spec.
This means that the round must be forced into the chamber because it doesn't fit properly. Then, because the ammo is forced into the chamber, it sticks there. The slide can move back (about 1/4 of an inch) until barrel unlocking is supposed to start. But the barrel can't unlock because the cartridge is stuck in the chamber and the extractor is holding the slide to the cartridge. So the barrel and slide and cartridge are all locked together and that prevents the slide from moving any farther back until the cartridge comes unstuck from the chamber.
Yup. I have one gun (not a Glock) with a tight chamber. It does NOT like S&B factory ammo, but it will shoot about 47 or 48 of 50 rounds out of each box with no problem. The other two or three either won't chamber or stick in the chamber if the slide is forced closed.
If the trigger doesn't move back forward, that indicates a problem in the trigger system. Could be a bad connector, a bad trigger bar, a bad firing pin or a combination of a trigger bar and firing pin that are just enough out of spec that the firing pin isn't catching on the trigger bar and resetting the trigger. I can't see how it would lock up the slide, even after playing around with my cutaway gun.
Here's what I think you're saying.
- You try to chamber a round but the gun won't go fully into battery.
- You pull the slide back slightly, trip the trigger safety and then when you release the slide, the gun goes fully into battery without any force being required.
- Now the slide won't come back more than about 1/4 of an inch.
Is that right?
How do you finally get the slide open? Sheer force?
LiveLife
Member
I hear ya.
For me, I usually place the back of RSA on the top notch and while holding the slide with my hand/fingers, use the bottom of thumb to push forward and down to the middle notch. This method doesn't take much force and almost no movement of my fingers (BTW, I am right handed)
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LiveLife
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I doubt any RN profile bullet loaded to OP's 1.090" will contact the start of rifling of factory Glock barrel.
If there is any contact with barrel, it is likely brass not fully resized or overly expanded case base brass like 9mm Major brass hence why I suggested OP chamber check all the reloads before the next range trip. (There is less likely case of bulged case neck/tilted bullet contacting chamber wall, especially with thicker walled cases but chamber checking finished rounds would catch those too)
Gen2 9mm Glock barrel will allow longer than SAAMI max of 1.169" OAL with typical RN bullets. Not only is leade length longer than typical but the start of rifling is very gradual and smooth. Here is Gen3 Glock 17 barrel which I believe is same as Gen2 barrel.
Compared to Shield 9mm barrel with shorter leade and sharper start of rifling which still allows 1.169"+ OAL with all FMJ/RN bullet types (Except RMR 147 gr FMJ at 1.160") - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11068319
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OP
OP
whughett
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Basically I locked the slide up side down in a padded vise and pulled and pushed and tapped with a small plastic hammer until, Viola, it came free.
I then proceeded to load the magazine and manually tried to cycle the rounds by hand. The 3rd one jammed.
That’s also when I discovered I could trip the lever on the trigger then push the slide back into battery. Let me note at this point this was not the Ammo I was testing, this was commercial Ammo. Blazer Brass 115FMJ. I could not extract it but at least it was in battery and possible would fire. Which it did once I returned to the range, not only fired but locked the slide back on the empty magazine. Loaded four more rounds and they too fired.
At this point I’ve loaded another 50 rounds, I’ve manually cycled a magazine full, looks ok.Hopefully all goes well and the whole thing can be chalked up to operator error.
LiveLife
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Me too.
But do take the time to take the barrel out and chamber check every one of 50 rounds to rule out finished dimensions causing a slide lock up (which has been the cause for me).
OP
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whughett
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Friend. I’m sitting in my easy chair chuckling. I’m actually going to go down, get the gun and box of Ammo and “plunk” test every last one while I watch YouTube. 40+ years of reloading and pushing 60 years of shooting, that will be a first.
LiveLife
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I didn't believe the resizing complain other members made when they assured me that they were resizing 9mm brass until bottom of sizing die contacted the top of shell plate and STILL failed the gauge/barrel. I went, "If you are full length resizing the brass, they should work".
Then I started seeing overly expanded 9mm Major brass shot by USPSA match shooters that I full length resized yet failed my barrels (124 gr bullets pushed to 1400-1450+ fps and spent brass look just like any other brass but even case base web area gets expanded where resizing die cannot reach). I soon realized increased resizing effort was the clue and now I chamber check every brass that requires extra effort to resize to make sure they are not overly expanded 9mm Major brass. If I can't get them to chamber in the tightest barrel after resizing twice, they get tossed for bulk metal recycling as they will lock up the slide.
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OP
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whughett
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And knock me over, didn’t 10 of them fail. They were not sized enough. Winchester brass but definitely not the same dimension. I had to turn the size die down until full contact with the shell plate.
All I can do is look at the symptoms and make a diagnosis. The symptoms are consistent with a round jamming in the chamber because it fits too tightly. I can't say precisely what dimension is too large, only that the behavior being described is consistent with a round that won't chamber freely and that then gets stuck in the chamber.
This is consistent with a round jammed in the chamber. There is considerable force generated when firing and it will easily extract very tight-fitting cases.
When you trip the trigger safety, how much force was required to get the gun to go into battery?
<<Edit. Ah. You posted while I was typing my response. Glad the mystery is solved!>>
LiveLife
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Glad you found the finished dimension issue before you went to the range.
And if the reloads shoot without locking up the slide ... I love happy endings.
barnetmill
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Some more waggish advice lol.
9x19 luger ammo is quite cheap and for now I am shooting factory FMJ for practice. Ammo, that is first thing is to try at least one brand of factory ammo. If two or more brands will not function, look at the gun. A glock should run well with any NATO spec round.
9x19 luger ammo is quite cheap and for now I am shooting factory FMJ for practice. Ammo, that is first thing is to try at least one brand of factory ammo. If two or more brands will not function, look at the gun. A glock should run well with any NATO spec round.
Trey Veston
Member
Yeah, after I realized that my painstakingly loaded rounds on a single-stage press got me maybe 1/8" or 1/4" better groups, I just started shooting the most accurate cheap stuff I could find at WalMart, which was the Remington UMC 115gr JHP. Heck, even the $33 for 200 rounds Federal Brass 115gr RN doesn't do too bad. I stocked up on it the day after WM declared their new Woke policy.
Here's a drill you can perform on a Glock with a cartridge stuck in the chamber...
Remove the mag.
Be careful of where you are pointing the gun.
Keep your finger off the trigger.
Hook the slide next to where the barrel exits the end of the slide on something solid (wall, bench, etc).
Violently push the frame forward.
Once the cartridge is clear, check to make sure the barrel is clear of any obstructions.
Remove the mag.
Be careful of where you are pointing the gun.
Keep your finger off the trigger.
Hook the slide next to where the barrel exits the end of the slide on something solid (wall, bench, etc).
Violently push the frame forward.
Once the cartridge is clear, check to make sure the barrel is clear of any obstructions.
crestoncowboy
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The lee bulge buster die is cheap and will fix an issue not associated with length. I got one in a box of reloading crap at an estate auction and I'm pretty idealist with it. All my competition rounds go through the bulge buster. Not necessary if everything else is perfect but cheap insurance especially of you have an extra station on your progressive press.
Master Blaster
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Get a case gauge, you should have one for every semi auto you load for.
AK103K
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You shouldnt have to check each and every round. The gages are used more to confirm you have your dies set right, or if maybe you think something you have might be a problem. I cant imagine checking every round, gage or plunk test.
If youre having constant issues with what youre using, something is off with your dies and/or methods, or, if its factory ammo, they did. In that case, the gage can verify the problem. A quick switch to a different brand of ammo can also show the same thing, or at least help isolate the problem.
Ths stoppages described here, sound exactly like the ones I get when the round is out of spec, and specifically, a bulge at or around the path the bullet took when seated, or at its base. Those rounds normally lock the gun up tight (trying to force it closed only makes it a LOT worse), and require you to beat or force the slide open, as described. I usually use the same method as Drobs described above. Those rounds usually dont require a gage to check either, as the problem is usually visable, if you look.
I load a lot of ammo over the year, and shoot the same ammo in multiple guns. Generally, I dont usually have a problem, other than the brass starting to wear out over time, and the case rims being torn up and causing most of the malfunctions. The bulge thing is fairly rare, and has been non existant since I switched out my old dies.
Everything wears too, the gun, the brass, the dies, pretty much everything you use, and it just gets worse the more you use it and time goes on. Sometimes its one thing, other times its a combination of things. If youre methodical, its usually not too hard to figure out what it is and get it straightened out.
If youre having constant issues with what youre using, something is off with your dies and/or methods, or, if its factory ammo, they did. In that case, the gage can verify the problem. A quick switch to a different brand of ammo can also show the same thing, or at least help isolate the problem.
Ths stoppages described here, sound exactly like the ones I get when the round is out of spec, and specifically, a bulge at or around the path the bullet took when seated, or at its base. Those rounds normally lock the gun up tight (trying to force it closed only makes it a LOT worse), and require you to beat or force the slide open, as described. I usually use the same method as Drobs described above. Those rounds usually dont require a gage to check either, as the problem is usually visable, if you look.
I load a lot of ammo over the year, and shoot the same ammo in multiple guns. Generally, I dont usually have a problem, other than the brass starting to wear out over time, and the case rims being torn up and causing most of the malfunctions. The bulge thing is fairly rare, and has been non existant since I switched out my old dies.
Everything wears too, the gun, the brass, the dies, pretty much everything you use, and it just gets worse the more you use it and time goes on. Sometimes its one thing, other times its a combination of things. If youre methodical, its usually not too hard to figure out what it is and get it straightened out.
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