I consider at 100yd with 3 shot groups around a inch or under off a bench for a good scoped hunting rifle with good ammo.half inch an under good Varmint rifle .if they don,t do that after free floating barrel ,some bedding work ,trigger work ,load testing they don,t live in my gun safe
What do you consider a good group size
- Thread starter soonerfan66
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You just haven't been looking at the right place.
There are Many non sponsored competitive high power rifle shooters who are capable of shooting well under 4" @ 100 yds and some very close to moa w/iron sights.See posts #35 (The x ring on black bullseye targets are .75" and 10 ring is 1.75") & 69 .
Now pistols, that's a whole 'nuther story.
Regards,
hps
ApacheCoTodd
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I figure a good group size to be something like 5 and not too many more.
That way, 2 or 3 can be shooting and 2-3 can be back with the beer and the sammiches making fun of the shooters.
Less, and nefarious individuals may creep onto your shooting site. More, and folk are waiting and you have to bring too many chairs.
Todd.
That way, 2 or 3 can be shooting and 2-3 can be back with the beer and the sammiches making fun of the shooters.
Less, and nefarious individuals may creep onto your shooting site. More, and folk are waiting and you have to bring too many chairs.
Todd.
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BarryHalls
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Given all of my druthers, 3 shots touching at 100 is not out of the question, however, that's precision shooting, not practical accuracy. With any given application and distance I reckon a fist sized group, 3.5" or so is more than sufficient for practical shooting (hunting/defense). Indeed the 9 ring on qualifications tends to be as much as 8 inches. Now that's as much as 30 yards with a duty weapon, under a lax time, but it's not out of the question either.
The only practical exception I find is squirrels with my air rifle. I like to put it in the head, about 1.5" diameter. That's about all I can do with my air rifle at squirrel range. Still, it's a clean kill or a clean miss.
The only practical exception I find is squirrels with my air rifle. I like to put it in the head, about 1.5" diameter. That's about all I can do with my air rifle at squirrel range. Still, it's a clean kill or a clean miss.
BAMASUPER45
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Maybe, we need to specify an "average" of our "worst groups", then we would know that we would be pretty good at that average and inside of that. That's what I do. Seems, I shoot 6" or less out to 35 yards, 75-80% of the time. So, I just laugh and say I hope the bad guy doesn't catch me on a good day. HA
BarryHalls
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Ro' Ti'e
kimberkid
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Depends on the rifle ... 3MOA @ 100 with an AR is child's play while with a Mini14 is exceptional.
Fine Figure of a Man
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That's why I don't have a Mini 14.
jmorris
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I have some firearms I doubt could even put a piece of shot through paper at 25 yards and others I feel are inferior performance by me or the load (usually me) if they are not all touching at 100 yards. Two completely different devices for two completely different purposes.
“Good” is qualitative, how many times have we heard of someone that has done something terrible and someone says, “he/she was a good ____.”
If you are wanting to hit a snake in the tree above your boat “good” might be a shot load from a .380 for a kill. If you are shooting a benchrest match a 6mm PPC that has a scope so powerful you couldn’t even see something inside 10 yards, would be a better choice.
“Good” is qualitative, how many times have we heard of someone that has done something terrible and someone says, “he/she was a good ____.”
If you are wanting to hit a snake in the tree above your boat “good” might be a shot load from a .380 for a kill. If you are shooting a benchrest match a 6mm PPC that has a scope so powerful you couldn’t even see something inside 10 yards, would be a better choice.
kimberkid
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My first center fire modern rifle in 223/5.56 (i.e. wasn't a surplus something) was a Colt AR15 Match Target, after falling in love with the light recoil & accuracy, I started looking at others in the same caliber ... I bought a mini and can't suffiently express my disappointment. I mean, on the A-Team, it was very accurate!
I worked with it for a month or so, I'm a reloader and tried several different bullets & powders besides different factory ammo's and it just never did better than 3.5" @ 100 so I sold it ... I really wanted to like it, but couldn't.
It wasn't ant better than an SKS!
In the mid 90's, after building a couple AR Franken-guns with JP Enterprise barrels that shot under .75" (and under .5" on a good day) I saw another mini-14, it had beautiful wood and bought it ... it was t any better than my first ... sold it and swore I'd never buy another.
So 25 years fly by, I own or have owned many different brands of 223/5.56 including HK, AUG, Valmet, CZ, Bushmaster ACR ... and a couple months ago ... I saw another mini in a Choate folding stock ... it called to me and I answered the call. I haven't bothered to shoot it for group size as I'm sure it'll piss me off as it's a 181 series ... I'm not going to scope it, but off-hand I can hit a 12" gong at 100 (7 of 10 times) I like it so I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is, it's a good touch gun.
.38 Special
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Well I am glad you posted that. "Back in the day" I shot master scores across the course (and high master scores on my favorite individual matches) in NRA action, and have never shot scores anywhere near as good as the average guy on the internet. I've known some 50m free pistol and 10m air guys who could come close...
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The best I've ever done out of my .45 Shield (My usual Carry Gun) at 7 yards is 20 rounds into 2.75" in 30 seconds including 2 Magazine Changes. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that's what I should do at 25 yards.
.38 Special
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I personally consider that very good shooting and more than adequate for defensive purposes. If nothing else, it is better than 95 percent of the shooting I have witnessed over the past few decades.
The excercise was supposed to be get as many rounds in a 2" Circle as possible in 30 Seconds. If you cut the ring it counted. I had 16 rounds within the ring, 3 that cut the circle (Counted) and 1 outside. Misses counted double the negative points that hits counted positive. I found it an interesting excercise that rewarded both speed and accuracy.
Trey Veston
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It's all subjective, until you are in a competition. Then there are clear guidelines and benchmarks to achieve.
I thought I was an amazing shot, until I started competing. I usually finish in the top five, sometimes the top 3, in both GSSF and BPCR matches, but I've never been the best.
Some people are just much better shots than others. And I don't buy the theory that practice makes you better; yes, it makes you better to a certain degree, and familiarizes you with a certain weapon, but all the practice in the world won't make me a Jerry Miculek.
I can go months without shooting, and then go pick up a pistol and shoot amazing groups. Then I can go the next day and see a 100% increase in group sizes.
I thought I was an amazing shot, until I started competing. I usually finish in the top five, sometimes the top 3, in both GSSF and BPCR matches, but I've never been the best.
Some people are just much better shots than others. And I don't buy the theory that practice makes you better; yes, it makes you better to a certain degree, and familiarizes you with a certain weapon, but all the practice in the world won't make me a Jerry Miculek.
I can go months without shooting, and then go pick up a pistol and shoot amazing groups. Then I can go the next day and see a 100% increase in group sizes.
Practice does make you better. That doesn't mean you will be in the NFL if you just practice enough.
Trey Veston
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Exactly. A man's got to know his limitations...
Skeptic13
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So for me I am only paying attention to group size when shooting rifles in .308 and .223. With scoped bolt action rifles shooting hand loads my goal is to shoot moa. I can usually get groups between .5 and 1.5 inches with the bolt action .223 at 100 yards. 1" to 2" with .308 at 100 yards. Also getting 1" to 2" with scoped AR15. All of these are from a rest and a bench. These results are perfectly acceptable for hunting so I am happy.
For open sighted rifles at 100 yards I am happy with 6" - 8". With pistols at 7-10 yards I am pleased with most of my rounds group in the same general vicinity. That way I know I can defend myself if it ever becomes necessary.
For open sighted rifles at 100 yards I am happy with 6" - 8". With pistols at 7-10 yards I am pleased with most of my rounds group in the same general vicinity. That way I know I can defend myself if it ever becomes necessary.
My Grandfather used to laugh about bench shooters once the rifle was sighted in. In his opinion the real question is can you put the shot within 3" of your target point with the first shot offhand or with an improvised rest as the case may be. For me that's generally about 125 - 250 yards with an accurate scoped rifle depending on conditions.
whughett
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At my age anything that stays in the kill zone at 50 feet on a 12x18” shoot and see silhouette target off hand.
Skeptic13
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And I would agree that we need to shoot positions other than bench rest specifically if you are going hunting. However we bench rest shoot to give us a baseline of how a particular gun shoots with specific ammunition. This is especially important when working up hand loads. I need to know that the gun is being shot in the most consistent way possible and that I have eliminated as many factors that contribute to inconsistency as possible. Once I have my gun and ammo shooting consistently then I can move to shoot other positions knowing that now I am the only factor that can cause poor performance.
That, unfortunately, is true. My mother has shot rifle once in her whole life. Ten shots with Mosin Nagant M39 service rifle, at a military range back in the 60's (well, my dad's best buddy was a special forces general so they could do pretty much what they liked). Score of 98, a <2" group with open sights at 150m. Had the sights been dead on, it would've been the elusive 100. It took me a while, a couple of photographs and a verbal confirmation from the general to believe it myself. I really wish I had even half of her natural talent.
Agree, some seem to be "natural" shooters and every shooter has his/her limitations, beyond which all the practice in the world will not surpass. Taught marksmanship to both youngsters and adults for a lot of years and I believe that the gals (all ages) have a bit better eye-hand co-ordination than the boys (young and old). One other observation is that the boys up to age 7 or 8 and gals of all ages are a lot easier to coach, as they are not convinced that they already know how to shoot, thank you, and you're just in the way.
IMO, quality trigger time will make you as good as you can be and is necessary to maintain that level of performance, however.Regards,
hps
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