How ocd are you?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Waterboy3313

Waterboy3313

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
960
Location
Redding CA
This probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway. How much attention do you pay to detail? What variance do call acceptable?

Tonight I was finishing up a batch of 50 .38 special on my single stage press. I've been reloading since October of this year. I started on a single stage press because I am new and want to ensure things are consistently happening at a rate I can keep my eyes on. While I was doing this I the question popped into my mind about general acceptable variances throughout the entire process of reloading.

I admit being new and wanting the best accuracy I can produce at my shooting skill level I am probably a little ocd. I know I don't own the best most expensive equipment. I own almost everything Lee brand. I have 3 different scales and so far all the rounds I have loaded have been with Tight group powder.

I really dislike the Lee balance beam scale so I opted for a Lyman digital scale. It seems great but then I decided to buy another digital scale that is accurate down to the .002 gr. That made me realize how much I was inconsistent between measuring every powder drop. I know that probably sounds stupid. I'm not really worried about a .01 gr let alone .002
I measure every powder drop maybe if I wasn't using titegroup I wouldn't be so particular but the spread is pretty narrow so I feel better safe than sorry. My goal is also to be consistent. Which brings up the real part of my question.

Being new and careful I also measure every OAL right off of the press after seating. What do you all consider acceptable? If I was trying for 1.475 I try to keep it within + or - .003. Maybe I'm going over board on this but I'm just trying to be accurate as possible and keep everything consistent to the best of my ability.
 
I load 9mm and .45 acp as well I wasn't being specific about .38 special but the question kind of popped up tonight while I was seating a batch of .38 special.
 
It depends a lot on what I am doing.

For pistol matches I have won hundreds over the years using volume thrown charges, just doesn’t matter at that distance.

FWIW same thing can be said for 100-200 yard benchrest rifle.

If you have a scale that claims to be accurate to .002 grains and it didn’t cost thousands of dollars, it’s not accurate to .002 grains (a single kernel of extruded powder can weigh .02 of a grain, would be like cutting it into ten pieces). However, again, it doesn’t matter.

You can test this yourself though, load up a number “right on the money”, then throw the same number from a measure.

If you can fire both of them without any influence on the results (talking about when we were kids and cut the mufflers off a car and it was “faster” without any empirical evidence, it just had to be...) , you will know it it’s worth the extra effort. That’s how lots of us got to where we are.

Once the differences become obvious we change our practices.
 
Welcome to the addiction. Lee equipment is very good; no need to apologize for using Lee equipment. I prefer a beam balance, and +/- 0.01gr is very, very good powder tolerance for 38 Spl. There are more user-friendly beam scales than the Lee, but not many that are more accurate and reliable. Most revolver projectiles have a cannelure, which if used essentially negates the need to check COAL over and over once the seating die has been set up. If you insist, +/- 0.03" is very, very good COAL tolerance.
 
Been reloading 38s since 1982; never worried about any of this; every LSWC comes out the same every time.
 
I buy bullets with cannelures and load to that length. I tend to pick powders that meter consistently in my powder throw, produce good accuracy, and produce the velocity I’m looking for with accuracy being more important.

Done. Semi auto cartridges can be a little more sensitive to OAL, and if loading powder puff loads, may not cycle the action correctly. So I pay a bit more attention there.
 
Done. Semi auto cartridges can be a little more sensitive to OAL, and if loading powder puff loads, may not cycle the action correctly. So I pay a bit more attention there.
Click to expand...

I agree the 38 and 357 are the only bullets I use that have cannelures. The bullets I use for 9mm and 45 acp do not. I have through trial and error found a great combination that my Kimber likes that for me is very accurate. I have loaded a few hundred of the 45 acp being very careful to be consistent and they have worked very well for me.

I guess I'm going to have to to load some .45 rounds set up how I normally do and not be so exact and measure every step of the process and see how they work out. As previously mentioned maybe that will help me not be such a perfectionist and get me over the triple checking of each and every step on every single round.

I have a new 357 sitting at the LGS I can't pick up until the 10 day background check clears. When I get it I will do the same thing for it and see if I notice anything different. It's not like I am a competition shooter or anything I just want to be safe and shoot the best as I can.
 
I'll assume you are shooting those 38sp out of a revolver and after reading your new gun thread I know a GP100 is in your future.
I can tell you there are many variations within a gun (revolver) that can affect accuracy, and if they are not addressed, all the OCD ammo stuff will not show the potential gains in accuracy.

I went OCD on a GP100 like yours and spent a lot of time tweaking the gun along with the ammo.
Just to name a few common details related to accuracy:
1.- Measuring the cylinder throat dia. for "sameness" and possibly lap the small ones to match the big ones...within reason.
2.- Measuring/slugging the barrel for "thread restriction" and lapping that out if found.
3.- Measuring and checking the finish of the chambers, and careful polishing to improve the finish.
4.- Checking the barrel crown for burrs, "squareness" to be bore and uniformity, yep, you can lap that too, as well as the forcing cone.
5.- You can check the alignment of each chamber with the barrel when the hammer is cocked, but there's not much you can do to correct that, that I know of.
6.- Number the chambers and shoot a group with the #1 chamber, the #2 chamber and so on, this will identify the worst/best chamber and where "flyers"/less accurate shots could be coming from. I just shoot at 6 different targets to do this...
You just have to decide where you want to spend your time,
:D
 
Firstly, it's CDO, that is the correct alphabetical order.

Secondly, yes.

Thirdly, Varget comes in three different sizes of kernels. The average weight is .02 grains the individual weight varies based on kernel extrusion length.
:)
And not a bit matters if I had coffee that morning before hand.:D
 
If you are really serious about this the term is CDO.:D Seriously in the beginning I sought out every little thing to improve my accuracy. I learned quickly that there is a point of diminishing returns in reloading. I do check revolver throats and slug the bore before I attempt to shoot lead bullets. I will fix things as needed. Then try the usual suspects to see of they make a decent, accurate load. Then load some and shoot. With rifle ammo I am a bit more stringent in my prep if I am trying for accuracy but for blasting any of my normal reloads are better than any factory so I am happy with that as I can only shoot so well these days. :cool: It's your decision ultimately on how much time is invested in each round and if that makes you satisfied. YMMV
I see demi-human beat me to the definition.;)
 
I was just chatting with a friend at the range on Sunday morning. The discussion wondered into accurate scales. Now this good friend is the current and two time 600 yard NBRSA National champion, also has set a couple world records, so that qualifies him to a degree....
Anyway a separate buddy had previously remarked that his charge master was accurate to + or - 0.1 gr so as a challenge several vials were weighed and sent to my friends lab scale for comparison only to find a MUCH greater level of inconsistency reportedly enough to make a 100 FPS variance from the highest to the lowest which of course translates to a huge amount on paper.
This IMO wouldn’t effect pistol cartridges but I thought I would share this tib bit of information for a morning discussion.
myself I use a beam scale tuned to one kernel of Varget powder for mr 6 BR
My hunting applications I’m probably not as a An...l

Anyway back to my coffee
J
 
You will never know a .01 or.002 grain difference in a 38 special. Yes you are over OCDing this,:)

Close enough is good enough.(in this instance)
 
Give in to your OCD. Really. For each round loaded, measure everything you can. Case length, volume, wall thickness, bullet weight, diameter, length, charge weight, COL, crimp diameter, everything. Keep good track for each round, then send them down range bench resting and keep good records on the velocity and group sizes. Lather, rinse, repeat for powder forward, level and back. I’ll wager after a few times of this for different calibers, bullets and powders and you’ll decide what variables are really important. BTW, scales that accurately and precisely measure to .002gr are lab quality and you’ll need those really expensive check weights to verify.
For USPSA, I’ve dialed back my CDO to making sure primers are flush or below, there’s a reasonable powder charge before seating a bullet, and the 100 count gauge block shows rounds can chamber and are approximately the same COL. I’ll check charge weights every 25 or 50 just for fun.
For PR, I’m still experimenting but do dial up the CDO to try to get the SD down.
 
Bandit67 said:
I think the decimal points are in the wrong place but I'm just now having my coffee so I could be wrong. My chargemaster is accurate to +/- .1 or 1/10th of a grain, .01 is 1/100th and .002 is 2/1000th. That would be lab quality accuracy for sure.
Click to expand...

Since the topic of the thread is OCD compulsions, I’ll assume this is fair play.

Even among analytical labs, a 0.002 grain analytical balance is pretty uncommon. Most read to 0.001g - “g” as in GRAMS” - with only the more specialized micro and ultra balances dipping down to 0.0001g. Most common analytical balances in non-pharma applications will be +/-0.001g, aka 1mg, is 0.015 gr - “gr” as in GRAINS. Stuff like the Mettler Toledo MS-603 I have setting on my bench. I did use some ME-204’s with 0.1mg (0.0015 grain) readability in the past. Any of these costing $3500-5000.

Maybe the OP does have a +/-0.1mg balance, but most likely since he’s a new reloader, it’s a GemPro, which is +/-1mg, 0.001g, 0.015grn. I find most guys who would be familiar with high precision analytical gear in the fractional milligram order aren’t asking questions about necessary precision and scientific method for reloading handgun cartridges.
 
Depends on what I'm loading.

Auto pistol and plinking .38 stuff, not very OCD.
.44 mag and .45 Colt, a little more particular
Bottleneck rifle stuff, I'm pretty OCD
 
http://www.prometheustoolcorp.com/
Click to expand...

"Prices start at $3800." I guess the answer to the OP is that I'm not ever going to be near THAT OCD.

Truthfully, I'm careful about reloading practices, but any OCD there or in life in general is balanced by an innate laziness that searches for the most efficient means to do something and only to do those things that matter. If it doesn't matter a hill of beans, I can let it go. If it can be proven to make a measurable difference, and I care about the magnitude of that difference, then I'll do it in as efficient a manner as I can find.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C5rider
  • Locked
Accuracy in powder measure
Replies
14
Views
1K
Lost Sheep
L
uncle.45
  • Locked
OCD FRUSTRATIONS!?!
Replies
16
Views
676
uncle.45
uncle.45
K
  • Locked
Confused about weighing powder
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Rollbar
R
W
  • Locked
New reloader - scale question
2
Replies
34
Views
1K
jcwit
J
CRM284
  • Locked
How to accurize your beam scale?
2
Replies
33
Views
4K
rskent
rskent
Back
Top