The M1 Garand: The Greatest Rifle of All Time

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I was issued a M16 way back in 66, I was not impressed.
I traded an ARVN for an M1 Carbine, my junior medic got a M1. While th 16 was good at suppressive fire, we were taking kill shots.
today an AR 15 is my go to.back
like I said up thread, it is individual, subjective and endlessly debatable!
 
AK103K said:
Thats your answer. :thumbup:


The M1 is a good gun, for the most part, as long as you understand what it is and how it works, and you have clips and the proper ammo. There are things about it that can be pretty scary too.

Its pretty obvious, the video was meant to incite and annoy, and I suppose an attempt at humor. The sorry thing is, there are a lot of people who seem to think things like the M1 are current and a viable tool today.

Will they work, sure, to a point. Are there better things available? Absolutely. And that started with the very next rifle accepted for service use. As short lived as that was. What I find funny is, the one thats been in service longest, as the issue rifle, is the one most bitched about. I guess the government really does hate us. :D
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Please define current and viable tool today.

Please keep it in context of 99.9% of american shooters when putting in your comments please.

Look folks all this stuff is....toys, stuff like this are all toys. Stow it with your well I use it for hunting....you might, but you also would have saved money and gotten a more accurate rifle if you bout a $120 savage axis on closeout at walmart....so it don't hold water.

Current and Viable......only wannabe tactical Tony's think well when the great __________ happens I will hold them off with my ___________. It is still as good as it gets.

We use these things in all kinds of different gun games, for fun, We shoot out back at everything from pop bottles to old cars with them and go wow that was fun and cool.....and you know what that is just fine....not one single thing wrong with that....banging steel or a hanging bowling pin....or lets see how long that old starter off the tractor will hole up....fun stuff.

This is what the gun is being used for now 99% of the time. Enjoy it, she is in her retirement she deserves to have some fun, get treated like the grand ole' lady she is.
 
fpgt72 said:
Please define current and viable tool today.

Please keep it in context of 99.9% of american shooters when putting in your comments please.

Look folks all this stuff is....toys, stuff like this are all toys. Stow it with your well I use it for hunting....you might, but you also would have saved money and gotten a more accurate rifle if you bout a $120 savage axis on closeout at walmart....so it don't hold water.

Current and Viable......only wannabe tactical Tony's think well when the great __________ happens I will hold them off with my ___________. It is still as good as it gets.

We use these things in all kinds of different gun games, for fun, We shoot out back at everything from pop bottles to old cars with them and go wow that was fun and cool.....and you know what that is just fine....not one single thing wrong with that....banging steel or a hanging bowling pin....or lets see how long that old starter off the tractor will hole up....fun stuff.

This is what the gun is being used for now 99% of the time. Enjoy it, she is in her retirement she deserves to have some fun, get treated like the grand ole' lady she is.
Click to expand...
You obviously havent been around the various boards, including here, where the fights rage on, about how the M1 and M1A should be brought back and the M4, AR, whatever version you want to compare, are poor dog and mouse shooters and not worth a crap.

There are also a lot of people who seem to think the M1 and M14/M1A , are still viable weapons for the end of the world thats been forever coming, generation after generation and seems so important to many.

I think the reality is, a lot of people have been told a lot of stories, get one, and think they are now at the top of the food chain weapon wise. Hey, whatever. Lots of people seem to have their heads stuck in another universe, and reality isnt a big thing there.

I agree with you, these rifles are, and have been for a long time now, basically big (and little) boy toys. Except maybe for those with SHTF fantisies.

For a while, the M1's were the top of the heap in the matches, but that hasnt been the case for quite a while now either. But, there are quite a few who still use them in the various military rifle matches, and if youre serious and shooting them regularly, Im betting youre probably a few notches above "toy" level.

They are fun stuff, as long as you understand them and realize that if you dont use the right ammo, or load them properly, they can be a bomb in your hands, just waiting to go off.

Im sure youve probably seen this one before. Many of the hobbyist M1 shooters Ive talked to dont even have a clue that this can and does happen.



I still see people dropping single rounds into the chamber on them and letting the bolt fly. If this sounds familiar, I HIGHLY suggest you find out what a SLED is and use one. At the very least, use a clip.

If youre reloading for them, best make sure you know what youre doing there too.

They are all fun and games right up til you need stitches, if youre lucky and thats all. :thumbup:
 
AK103K said:
You obviously havent been around the various boards, including here, where the fights rage on, about how the M1 and M1A should be brought back and the M4, AR, whatever version you want to compare, are poor dog and mouse shooters and not worth a crap.

There are also a lot of people who seem to think the M1 and M14/M1A , are still viable weapons for the end of the world thats been forever coming, generation after generation and seems so important to many.

I think the reality is, a lot of people have been told a lot of stories, get one, and think they are now at the top of the food chain weapon wise. Hey, whatever. Lots of people seem to have their heads stuck in another universe, and reality isnt a big thing there.

I agree with you, these rifles are, and have been for a long time now, basically big (and little) boy toys. Except maybe for those with SHTF fantisies.

For a while, the M1's were the top of the heap in the matches, but that hasnt been the case for quite a while now either. But, there are quite a few who still use them in the various military rifle matches, and if youre serious and shooting them regularly, Im betting youre probably a few notches above "toy" level.

They are fun stuff, as long as you understand them and realize that if you dont use the right ammo, or load them properly, they can be a bomb in your hands, just waiting to go off.

Im sure youve probably seen this one before. Many of the hobbyist M1 shooters Ive talked to dont even have a clue that this can and does happen.



I still see people dropping single rounds into the chamber on them and letting the bolt fly. If this sounds familiar, I HIGHLY suggest you find out what a SLED is and use one. At the very least, use a clip.

If youre reloading for them, best make sure you know what youre doing there too.

They are all fun and games right up til you need stitches, if youre lucky and thats all. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


No idea there are people suggesting the 556 be replaced with 762....While I am not one of the guys that thinks one can do everything, I do think the 556 is pretty close to the right thing for the current "war fighter" places and engagements they are likely to find themselves in. That does not mean it is the answer to all questions, it just checks the most boxes....now if we go to plastic ammo and the weight comes down like they are thinking it will....well that could be a big change....who knows....but right now, the 556 offers the best as far as a load out you will need to carry.

As to the video, again I have seen it but that is it...never bothered to look into what the issue was....or was thought to be.

I would like to think that in this day and age those using these old rifles....or any old rifle (the garand has some special "you better not do that" kind of things) knows the in's and outs on using them.

As these WWII guns start to tickle 100 years old "we" really need to "know what you are doing" in the care and feeding of them. And know what to look for as to wear items....and having a G43 go "full auto" on you and do a mag dump will really take you for a shock.

On a side note and in someone comes across this, there are commercially loaded "garand safe" loads out there for these guns....just like there are "trap door safe" loads for 4570...if you can't or don't roll your own.
 
Speedo66 said:
Imagine that fantastic rifle but with a few improvements, like say, a removable magazine for easy reloads, 20 round capacity, a reduced recoil but still effective round, and built like a tank of wood and steel.

Wonder why they never made anything like that?
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They were and are still made. With 5, 10, 20 and 30 round mags and a 30 caliber round. And lighter weight too.

https://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/specSheets/5804.html
 
This is from the video on YT from the girl it happened to.

arizonagirl24
8 years ago
"I am the person this happened to. The 7th round jammed, which is nothing unusual for this gun. It happens all the time. That is why I didn't really hesitate to shoot the final round. We were using newer ammo, so we don't think that's the problem. My brother has been looking at his M1, and we noticed it will still fire with the chamber not fully closed. The chamber can be open up to 1/2" and the weapon will still fire. We think that's what happened".


https://accounts.google.com/Service...p&hl=en&next=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dmn0KBzK2Kho&hl=en
 
Not really sure, but to hazard a guess, it wasnt in battery, which happens more than many seem to think, and even though its not "supposed" to be able to fire that way.

She did have some troubles there right at the end, and it looked like she cleared it and chambered a new round. Maybe that round she pulled out left the bullet in the throat and next round went in right behind it. It looks like she was looking at it and didnt seem concerned, but maybe she thought the one didnt extract/eject properly, and what she pulled out was an empty case. Who knows. (ETA:^^^^there you go. :) )

Even if youre familiar with these rifles, or think you are, you really need to be paying attention to whats going on as youre shooting. My rifle was a "new", to me, DCM gun, and the first time I was out with it. I got two or three doubles in one of the rapid-fire strings, and just figured it was me, a new gun I wasnt familiar with, and maybe I was milking the trigger, "bumping" it, etc. I normally dont have those issues, and maybe that should have been a warning, and I let it pass.

Later on, when the brass was recovered, there were a couple of pieces of brass with the necks blown out in various stages. If I hadnt of waited to recover my brass, I would have seen the warning signs that something might be up, and probably would have stopped.

But, thats life, and lessons learned.


As far as the Rugers go, they really arent an M1, or even an M14 copy, and dont come close. They kind of look like a little one, but thats about it.

Ive owned a number of 80's era Mini's, and the accuracy was pretty bad, especially as the guns heated up, and the sights flat out sucked. This is especially so if you need to make quick sight changes/adjustments, which is a PITA with the Rugers anyway, and there was no "repeatable" change accuracy. Ive shot a few of the newer guns, and they do seem to have worked some of the accuracy issues out, and they do seem to be somewhat better shooters, but their sights still suck, and are nothing like the click repeatable GI sights.

Not that it really matters either though. I would say the majority of shooters probably dont mess with the sights once they have them set for where and how they are shooting and leave them at that. I have buddies with M1's and M1A's that dont know what a BSZ is, or what it should be set at. Or even what their clicks are, for any zero.
 
AK103K said:
Ive owned a number of 80's era Mini's, and the accuracy was pretty bad, especially as the guns heated up, and the sights flat out sucked. This is especially so if you need to make quick sight changes/adjustments, which is a PITA with the Rugers anyway, and there was no "repeatable" change accuracy. Ive shot a few of the newer guns, and they do seem to have worked some of the accuracy issues out, and they do seem to be somewhat better shooters, but their sights still suck, and are nothing like the click repeatable GI sights.

Not that it really matters either though. I would say the majority of shooters probably dont mess with the sights once they have them set for where and how they are shooting and leave them at that. I have buddies with M1's and M1A's that dont know what a BSZ is, or what it should be set at. Or even what their clicks are, for any zero.
Click to expand...

The older Minis did not shoot that accurately. Thats a well documented fact. But the newer gun with the tapered barrel are a different story. I have a 580 series gun with tapered barrel and I cannot detect any walking or zero change. And yes a better rear sight would be nice. And I did just what you mentioned. I have a generic sight setting and its good for 200 yards. But a rear sight that is finger adjustable and able to repeat sight settings is something I would buy and add. But for what I use the gun for the sights work for me.

If you get the chance try shooting one of the 580 or later series of guns. I think you will change your mind about them.

Oops! Forgot about Tech Sights.

https://www.tech-sights.com/mini-products/
 
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In my day the "Stoner Weapons System" was qualification tested at Parris Island SC with a recruit series from 3Rd Battalion if memory services me correctly. Later on The Stoner System would be field tested by elements of the 7th Marines in Viet-Nam. Going back to Parris Island we qualified with the M14, but at Infantry Training Regiment at Camp Geiger we utilized the M1 Rifle. Viet-Nam M14 transitioned to the M16. The Hill Fights, the M16 would prove to be problematic with the service ammunition of the period. Finishing up with 3Rd Battalion 8th Marines at GITMO with the M14. The Navy (Sailor) contingent of the defense battalion were armed with M1 Rifles converted to7.62 NATO with the use of mixed barrels, some with chamber inserts others with new barrels chambered for the7.62MM NATO. The chamber inserts could be problematic, thus on occasion extracted with the fired case. The incidents were sporadic but none the less happened!

Being Left-Handed, I was never a fan of the M1. The RVN units with M1 rifles would have and were better serviced with the M1 Carbine and were when that occurred.
 
Corpral_Agarn said:
What the heck happened there?????
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Shooter error + possible mechanical problems w/rifle. Shooter said she had a jam on 7th round. You will note that when she cleared jam in video, she eased bolt down rather gently. Should have let bolt slam home. I always hit op rod handle w/heel of hand and glance at the bolt lug to assure bolt is fully closed. Bolt obviously did not go into battery and when she pulled trigger it fired out of battery. Garand is designed with two features which should should prevent this if in spec. (See video below starting at 4 min mark thru 5 min.) First is the receiver bridge blocks firing pin tail to prevent primer strike if bolt not rotated fully into battery. 2nd is the nose on hammer must drop into slot on bolt or hammer cannot strike firing pin. All of this dependent upon both features being within spec. and quality ammo that fully chambers.



This was a simple "fire out of battery" event (you can see her react when she pulled the trigger), not a slam fire which can occur both in or out of battery.

To prevent slam fire in any rifle with a floating firing pin, such as the Garand, M14, & others, care must be taken to prevent a "high primer" with handloads or any other condition that prevents cartridge from fully chambering as this prevents bolt from locking fully (oversized cases, primers not fully seated, dirty chamber, etc.) The floating firing pin can slam forward, striking primer with sufficient force in some cases to cause a slam fire.

Regards,
hps
 
M1 Garand is OK. They are fun to shoot. They can bring tears of memory to a WW-II Vet. They are well made, and if running right, will shoot well enough. But greatest rifle - I don't think so ...

Greatest for what? It's a war machine where targets are people. If that is your scenario, there are prolly better modern arms.

As a hunting rifle, I don't want to pack one. Or feed it, or deal with the sights ... I'd rather have a Tikka T3 in 308 with a killer scope :)
 
BrocLuno said:
M1 Garand is OK. They are fun to shoot. They can bring tears of memory to a WW-II Vet. They are well made, and if running right, will shoot well enough. But greatest rifle - I don't think so ...

Greatest for what? It's a war machine where targets are people. If that is your scenario, there are prolly better modern arms.

As a hunting rifle, I don't want to pack one. Or feed it, or deal with the sights ... I'd rather have a Tikka T3 in 308 with a killer scope :)
Click to expand...
Having actually clubbed a deer....I can see the advantages of that long heavy gun.....
 
Speedo66 said:
Imagine that fantastic rifle but with a few improvements, like say, a removable magazine for easy reloads, 20 round capacity, a reduced recoil but still effective round, and built like a tank of wood and steel.

Wonder why they never made anything like that?
Click to expand...

They were never able to get the twenty round box magazine to eject out the top of the action. ;)
 
1KPerDay said:
Why?? Unless you're shooting High Power, slung/jacketed, and having to load with the left hand, the M1 is superior for LH use in every other case.
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I shot a zillion high power match's with a Garand and am left handed. I is very easy to single load by placing the blade of your left against the op rod. This is with the palm of your hand facing you. you then place your index finger on the follower, push down and let it fly. You load the clips so the top round is on the left instead of the right. Easy Peasy!!!:thumbup::thumbup:
 
tbs said:
I is very easy to single load by placing the blade of your left against the op rod. This is with the palm of your hand facing you. you then place your index finger on the follower, push down and let it fly.
Click to expand...
This is one of those things you dont want to do.

Its how we were all taught to do it as kids, and how most everyone we used to shoot with growing up ever did it. I just think it was the accepted way to to things at the time. I loaded a bazillion rounds that way, right up to the one that detonated, without issue.

It must have been happening enough to be an issue, as not long after that, you started to see the SLED's show up and advocated, and single loading that way was being advised against.

If youre going to load without a SLED, Id lower the muzzle slightly, so the round doesnt slide back. seat the round fully in the chamber, lower the bolt slowly until it contacts the round and then seat things with a bump on the back of the op rod handle, with the heel of your hand.

You really dont want that bolt impacting a loose round at high speed, and especially one that isnt fully seated.

While reloads can be and are certainly an issue here, factory ammo isnt a guarantee something wont happen. I was using DCM GI issue Lake City 69 when I had the problem. Most of the others shooting M1's were using the same ammo, from the same cans, and had no troubles.

I believe there was probably something up with the rifle I had, and I think those rounds with the necks blown out kind of confirm that. When I called down to Anniston to talk to them about it, they asked what happened and told me to send the gun back. A couple of weeks later, I had a brand new ("literally") International Harvester. They never did say what they thought was the cause, and I was getting the impression, they really didnt want to get into it.

Back when the DCM was running things, the rifles they were shipping in the 80's were pretty rough, especially when you look at what the CMP was "selling" when the did away with the DCM program. My wife and I each paid $165 for our M1's, and both guns looked like they had been in conflict and/ or used hard. The wood and metals finish was pretty beat up. Nothing like some of those Blue Sky M1's that came back a little while later, but they made the CMP guns Ive seen look like they were brand new.
 
I think the entire span of the Garand from prototypes through its ultimate evolution should be take into account as well.

Ironically, the M-14 has many particular features that were included in prototypes and, had they been implemented, might have gone a long way towards knocking my own personal favorite *greatest* off of its perch - that being a metric FAL of most any flavor.

Todd.
IMG_1165.JPG
 
BrocLuno said:
M1 Garand is OK. They are fun to shoot. They can bring tears of memory to a WW-II Vet. They are well made, and if running right, will shoot well enough. But greatest rifle - I don't think so ...

Greatest for what? It's a war machine where targets are people. If that is your scenario, there are prolly better modern arms.

As a hunting rifle, I don't want to pack one. Or feed it, or deal with the sights ... I'd rather have a Tikka T3 in 308 with a killer scope :)
Click to expand...
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