Length gauge post from another board

Good point though, it is the understood vs the wordsmith.

If a design team was working on a cartridge where they use another parent case and said “how about we take a @#&*#% and shorten the OAL, open up the neck and move the shoulder back.” They would technically be creating a totally new shoulder, not moving an existing one. I don’t know if Guffy has been in one of those meetings to correct them or not but he could school them on proper terms for sure vs using universally understood terminology.

One of the biggest sirprises in my young life, my 10th English teacher told me one time "Don't let the English language get in the way of what you have to say."

However; some still set my teeth on edge, like "woken" when what is meant is "awakened".

Now, for a shooting example, ask people to define the space between the case head and the bolt, and you will get generational and regional definations. How about those that refer to bullets as "heads", as in "45 ACP Heads"?

So in a nutshell, fguffey is saying bottleneck cases can't shrug their shoulders. Got it. Maybe not, but I have personally seen some stand on their heads.

Metal God said:

The great thing about language is it's ever evolving . Based on some reloaders views though we should not use the word magazine because that was not it's original definition . Can we "fire" a gun ? I think not because that is not what fire originally meant !

Click to expand...

Lets call it this and or lets call it that. If I have to explain to a group in universal language they do not belong in the committee. I am not vain nor am I desperate for attention, I am not the one that accepts there is something called sizing and there is something called forming; I make no claim forming and sizing is different. It just does not work when things wad up on one side and does not make it out the other when sizing and or forming.

I know, it is a mind boggling thing to understand, the shoulder of the case passes through the forming and or sizing die, if the shoulder does not pass through 'the die' it wads up, the shoulder the reloader starts with is not the same shoulder he finishes with.

And just as mind boggling when I fire an 8mm57 round in my 8mm06 chamber part of the shoulder becomes part of the case body and part of the neck becomes part of the shoulder. I understand how much time reloaders have invested in the assumption the firing pin drives the case to the shoulder; if that happened the neck would not become part of the shoulder and part of the shoulder would not become part of the case body. That proves the firing pin did not drive the case to the shoulder when it hit the primer.

F. Guff

The newly formed shoulder on the 8mm06 is ahead of the 8mm57 shoulder by .127", had the firing pin drove the case shoulder forward .127" the case would have stretched .127" between the case head and case body.

In order to intelligently criticize or correct one’s misuse of terminology to describe an event, you must first understand what event they are describing. Otherwise, you wouldn’t know that it needed correction. So it is with “bump a shoulder back”. That phrase may not be technically correct in the subatomic particle scheme of things, but the meaning was obviously understood even by it’s chief critic. If you understand what one means when they say “bump the shoulder back”, mission accomplished. Where’s the beef?
Now back to our regular programming.

...the shoulder the reloader starts with is not the same shoulder he finishes with.

Click to expand...

and the case the reloader starts with isn’t the same case he finishes with..,and why are we calling him a reloader if it’s not...would he not simply be a loader at that point...

PWC said:

How about those that refer to bullets as "heads", as in "45 ACP Heads"?

Click to expand...

Or tips , I get the "point" . buuut . Now I'm going to go get some Vegan Sushi

Oh wait , since we are close to the super bowl I have another term I hate .

Strip sack , If he dropped the ball before you tackled him , it's just a strip and not a sack !!!! Seems people just make stuff up no matter what job they're doing .

@fguffey - it only took you a dozen posts because of your ridiculous writing style choice, but we all get it - and nobody cares. The common vernacular is what it is, and your chest thumping about changing the way the entire reloading world speaks because of molecular position is just dumb.

We get it, and we don’t care how you think we should say “moving the shoulder back.”

Frankly, to argue at this inane degree, the shoulder is not defined as a collection of atoms, but rather a physical structure of the case. Such changing the position of the shoulder has nothing to do with the individual atoms, but rather the location of the physical structure. Such your definition is incorrect, universally and definitively, and the common vernacular accurately represents the definition of the shoulder and how it is moved during sizing.