Cylinder rotation issue

tembotusk · May 31, 2020

I have an 1849 Colt Pocket revolver with a small problem. The pistol has a Howell conversion cylinder in 32 caliber.

The problem: After each shot, I have to help the cylinder start its rotation when the hammer is pulled back. If I don’t “help” it, the hammer jams at about quarter pull back. Almost like the bolt is still engaged. The rest of the timing appears to be OK. Once the rotation starts, it locks up into battery each and every time. The cylinder does not over-rotate.

As a secondary example: if I cycle the pistol on the bench, it works flawlessly, however, if I put a bit of backwards pressure on the cylinder, similar to what happens after a shot is fired; the hammer jams in the back of the cylinder and hampers rotation unless helped.

Question: Is the problem with the hand, bolt, hammer or something else? How do I fix it?

Mike 56 · May 31, 2020

Sounds like your handspring has broken you can buy the spring by itself self or you can make one out of a hairpin. They also sell the hand with the spring already on it. But the hand will require fitting.

tembotusk · May 31, 2020

Mike 56 said:
Sounds like your handspring has broken you can buy the spring by itself self or you can make one out of a hairpin. They also sell the hand with the spring already on it. But the hand will require fitting.

Mike 56, Thank you for the replay. The hand spring is intact. I'm not referring to barrel down cocking as opposed to barrel up cocking which may indicate a broken hand spring. The cylinder will rotate in any position while cocking. Of course, it doesn't mean the hand is not causing an issue. Just not sure.

Mike 56 · May 31, 2020

how does free does the cylinder turn in half-cock?.

whughett · May 31, 2020

Does it do this unloaded. If not just for chuckles make sure the bullet nose isn’t dragging on the forcing cone face. Don’t take much may not be noticeable otherwise.

tembotusk · May 31, 2020

Mike 56 said:
how does free does the cylinder turn in half-cock?.

The cylinder is free to rotate at half cock. No issue.

tembotusk · May 31, 2020

whughett said:
Does it do this unloaded. If not just for chuckles make sure the bullet nose isn’t dragging on the forcing cone face. Don’t take much may not be noticeable otherwise.

The bullet nose is just inside the cylinder; no dragging. The cylinder rotates just fine once it starts to rotate. The issue is getting it to start rotating as the hammer is pulled back.

expat_alaska · May 31, 2020

Have you disassembled it and checked all of the internals? It may be that the hammer cam is worn and not letting the bolt leg to reset.

Regards,

Jim

damoc · May 31, 2020

I have the same problem with mine but have not got around to sorting it out so I look forward to some answers It does it with percussion cyls and 32 SW conversion empty or loaded and a very slight assist by hand gets it turning easy. I had some hope it would wear in but it hasn't yet.

tembotusk · May 31, 2020

expat_alaska said:
Have you disassembled it and checked all of the internals? It may be that the hammer cam is worn and not letting the bolt leg to reset.

Regards,

Jim

Jim, I have disassemble the internals. I removed the trigger/bolt spring, trigger and bolt to take them out of the equation. All of which were operating properly within spec.

I took the cylinder out of the equation to see if the hammer/hand combo alone was the issue. No problem. Smooth operation.

I put the cylinder back in with only the hammer & hand. At the moment the hammer is pulled back and engages with the teeth of the cylinder, the hammer stops hard like someone put a stick in the spokes of a wheel. (A little nudging of the cylinder overcomes the stopped action.)

skeeterfogger · May 31, 2020

Sounds like the hand might be a tad long and not getting in the pocket/ under the lip.

J-Bar · Jun 1, 2020

If you are shooting light powder charges in those cartridges it may be that the primers are not being re-seated all the way back into the primer pocket. The high primer may be putting enough pressure backwards on the conversion cylinder backplate to cause some drag against something. When you rotate the cylinder by hand between shots, you may be pushing that high primer back into the primer pocket just enough to allow more rotation. Maybe. It shouldn’t be hard to check. Take out the fired case without trying to rotate the cylinder; does it stick out from the primer pocket any? If so, try a bit more powder in the case.

Edit:
But this would not explain locking up without cartridges in the cylinder.

A different thought...

The hammer must travel forward far enough to allow the leg of the bolt to reset on the hammer cam. If the conversion cylinder does not allow the hammer to fall completely forward, it could have an effect on lock up. You said the problem shows up with pressure towards the rear; the rearward pressure may be pushing the hammer back just a tad, enough to screw up the bolt release.

tembotusk · Jun 1, 2020

J-Bar, The issue happens with and without ammunition and also happens without a trigger and bolt in place. Skeeterfogger mentioned the hand might be too long. I'm worried if I shorten it any more, it will throw the timing off.

I have attached a video to show what is happing when I pull the hammer back.

J-Bar · Jun 1, 2020

tembotusk said:
J-Bar, The issue happens with and without ammunition and also happens without a trigger and bolt in place. Skeeterfogger mentioned the hand might be too long. I'm worried if I shorten it any more, it will throw the timing off.

I have attached a video to show what is happing when I pull the hammer back.

video link is not working.

Have you shot this revolver as a percussion gun, without the conversion cylinder? How did it work?

skeeterfogger · Jun 1, 2020

You need to color the back of the cylinder and see exactlly where the hand is contacting.
The bolt unlocks first as the hand is moving. If the hand is the wrong dimensions to contact the correct area at the correct time then there is an issue. IMO

tembotusk · Jun 1, 2020

J-Bar, No the revolver was never shot as a percussion gun.

Skeeterfogger, I will try putting dykim on the back of the cylinder and report back.

(Is the video link working? It worked for me from a different computer)

skeeterfogger · Jun 1, 2020

tembotusk said:
J-Bar, No the revolver was never shot as a percussion gun.

Skeeterfogger, I will try putting dykim on the back of the cylinder and report back.

(Is the video link working? It worked for me from a different computer)

Vid no go

skeeterfogger · Jun 1, 2020

tembotusk said:
J-Bar, No the revolver was never shot as a percussion gun.

Skeeterfogger, I will try putting dykim on the back of the cylinder and report back.

(Is the video link working? It worked for me from a different computer)

I might have missed it but when you move the hammer to no rotation is the bolt down?

tembotusk · Jun 1, 2020

I changed to setting from private to public. Don't know if that will help with the video.

skeeterfogger · Jun 1, 2020

Says play back by owner turned off on other sites

skeeterfogger · Jun 1, 2020

Was curious about if the bolt was disengaged at point of lock up.

Never mind. You said it did same without bolt.

tembotusk · Jun 1, 2020

Skeeterfogger, the layout fluid on the back of the cylinder was inconclusive. I could not tell where the hand was touching.

(I've made more changes to the video settings. Frustrating as it works perfectly from my computer.)

Obturation · Jun 1, 2020

tembotusk said:
Skeeterfogger, the layout fluid on the back of the cylinder was inconclusive. I could not tell where the hand was touching.

(I've made more changes to the video settings. Frustrating as it works perfectly from my computer.)

Your video works fine from here (phone).
Can't help with your problem though.
Good luck!

tembotusk · Jun 1, 2020

Obruration, thanks for the update!

skeeterfogger · Jun 2, 2020

Vid worked. I still say hand because you turn the cylinder a bit and it works. That's advancing the timing.
Put some color on tip of hand and see if it dots the cylinder.

Cylinder rotation issue

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