Loading the .32

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pairof44sp

pairof44sp

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Hi folks, I'm going to copy/paste my self-introduction, because it is basically a call for .32-related wisdom and advice:


Hi everyone. I found this forum through googling "hot 32 loads."

I'm new to firearms. After being raised to believe, "People who own guns are bad people," it took about three weeks after leaving home to get over that. "I'm allowed to own guns now? Hot damn!"

Now it's 30 years later, and after buying one gun per decade and not shooting it, I'm finally starting to get into it for real. I've bought 14 handguns in the last 6 weeks or so. I've seen the good deals disappear right before my eyes, but I got some incredible prices before they vanished.

My main interest right now is .32s: ACP, H&R, and 7.62x25 so far... .327 will come later. I've bought 8 handguns in .32 in the last few weeks.

So far, only reloading has been with a Lee mallet loader in .44, but I've got a press and accessories still in the box, waiting for when I get time (and for when my cast bullets finally. get here; been waiting for weeks).

My question (it's been only partially answered here and elsewhere) to solve is this: how hot can a Beretta 81 go?

Beretta 81 is the same gun, with the same spring and more chamber metal, as a Beretta 84. Since an 84 can handle 220 ft-lb .380s, can 32acp be loaded to that kind of energy without a disaster?

Thank you for letting me participate in your forum.
 
I’m not sure it is wise to nearly double the energy the slide would be subject to.
Not always is the chamber pressure the limiting factor in firearm design. It’s a system. Everything has to work together.

“Oh, good! The barrel didn’t burst! Hmm.
Now how do I get this slide out of my forehead?...”

For a gun to run “32Super” it needs to be built for it.

And Woe to the pistol that receives your handloads by mistake...:eek:

Yeah, it can probably work, but to what end? Cast isn’t going to expand more. And extra bullet energy is not really “more” for these little guys. The 81 isn’t a target pistol, so decreased drop at range isn’t a thing.

I like my P-32 a lot. Mostly because it doesn’t shoot like a 9mm that size. (Looking at you, Sig938.)

Don’t try to make the 32 Auto into something it isn’t. It will damage its confidence and give it a complex, maybe send it into alcoholism. It won’t be able to hold down a mag and will lose all it shooting buddies.
If you like the 32, don’t do that to her. Get that 327!;)(Gives you a good excuse!)


And Welcome Aboard! Glad you’re here!:)
 
The .32acp cartridge isn’t amenable to hot rodding.
There isn’t much case capacity to begin with. Secondly, most of the guns aren’t designed to handle the increased stress from such.

This isn’t to demean the cartridge or guns. It, and they, just are what they are...

The Beretta M81 is a sweetheart of a pistol. I’ve got one and enjoy shooting it. However, it does have its limitations.
The main one is the frame is aluminum alloy. Secondly it is a blow-back design. No barrel locking into the slide. So, the frame absorbs the energy of the slide. Both slide and frame will eventually crack from excessive recoil energy from hot loads.

I had a Beretta TomCat. It eventually had to go back to Beretta, who sent me a new replacement as both the slide and frame were cracked. (THEY NO LONGER DO THIS, BE AWARE!)
I estimate that it had fired around 3,000rds. Mostly light cast bullet loads duplicating US spec factory loads. However, I had also fed it as much as 400rds of Fiocchi 73gr ball, and 60gr JHP at the “HOT” European specs and equivalent reloads using both Speer 60gr GoldDots and Hornady 60gr XTP’s.

IMO, there is little to be gained in over loading the .32acp. A 60gr JHP at 1,000fps isn’t tossing nerf balls. Neither is a 73gr FMJ at 900fps.
The goal of reloading the .32 is safe accurate ammo that feeds reliably. Some designs can be real picky about what works. I’ve found the KelTecs and Beretta’s to be very forgiving and tolerant of the likes of flat nose, semiwadcutter, and hollow point ammo.
My favorite.32acp reload is a 78gr cast (Lyman mold) over Bullseye. Exact amount varies by pistol. My M81 likes 2.0gr and the KelTec likes 1.8gr.
I carry the Federal 65gr Hydroshocks...

First rule of gunfighting is have a gun....
The .32 in your back pocket or fannybag trumps the .40 at home or in the car trunk every time.

Added; what is really bizarre, is just how good the .32acp reloads with the 78gr LRN shoot from my Ruger Single-7. Poi/POA and decently accurate...
 
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I'm with the rest. I have a Beretta 81 myself and stay with the book loads. How well one can shoot the gun is far more important than how hot one can load it. The 81 can be very accurate and is easy to shoot which means faster on-target follow-up shots if the first one didn't get the job done.

If you really want to hot rod a 32 then get a 327 magnum.
 
I collect .32 ACP (7.65mm Browning Short, Corto, Kurz or Cort) of the early 20th Century. They are fun. Used to be cheap, but they've been 'discovered'. I don't have designed since the late 1930s and I think the last one I have made was in the 1950s.
The advertised specs are for a 71-73 grain FMJ bullet at 900 fps. None of the fourteen or so pistols I have will chronograph that fast. None. I have reloaded for the cartridge some, but it doesn't seem worth the effort. PPU makes the ammunition and some of the online vendors will sell it (in bulk) for rather low prices. I suspect the 60 grain JHP loads of insufficient penetration. Nor do I consider it a serious round for self defense.

I have tried a few cast bullets of the SWC configuration and find they do not feed well as a rule. Most of the cast SWC bullets are too heavy and finding reloading data is a bit difficult.
 
When I first started reloading, almost 50 years ago, I did some "hot rodding". It didn't always end well. These days, I load target mid-range loads, and with the exception of "Ruger only" .45 Colt, I depend on factory ammo for carry. My reloads are for practice.

For example, I recently purchased an SP101 in .327 Fed magnum. I purchased a few boxes of .327 carry ammo, but also a boatload of .32 S&W Long brass and 98 gr wadcutters. I took the revolver to the range the other day, shot some of the carry ammo to check for reliability and sight regulation, but then devoted the rest of my time seeing just how accurate I could be with my reloads.
 
I like 32 calibers as well...but I leave the playing around to the 327 LCR and 327 GP-100. I am loading 98 grain wadcutters into 327 federal brass for plinking/target work at some low speeds and for some upper level stuff. I don't try to do the 32acp for my Seecamp except for factory rounds on the known good round list. I've shot 32 Longs, 32 H&R, and 327 Federal Magnums through the LCR and GP-100 until I started loading for them. Now, it's all 327 Brass with MBC 98Grains.
 
I've looked into this. There was a hot .32 ACP cartridge at one point in history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frommer_Stop

From looking into ballistics info, basically the longer barrel of the Beretta 84 and other old surplus guns from Europe, I have a CZ-70, getting that barrel up around 4" adds a lot of velocity compared to common US pocket pistols. Another good note is that Fiocci and GECO and .32 ACP ammunition designed for 7.65 Browning pistols, same as 32 ACP cartridge, but the European derivative tends to be loaded a little snappier than US production.

I had the same exact question as you, basically the firearm is designed to handle 38 ACP stress, slide, frame etc, all perfectly capable. The liminting factor is the cartrdige and the Brass that has to expand and seal the chamber perfectly with very little tolerance for any type of failure. More powder will increase the failure rate and possibly in a very unhappy way. There is a very small volume of space for the powder, so - variations in powder down to .1 or .2 grains changes the way the cartridge fires a lot. I've played with making test loads and think I have a decent range load, but still working on it.

For ballistics, you'll read over and over .32 ACP is not a real cartridge for self defense etc etc. IMHO this is complete hogwash. From your Beretta 84, shooting Euro ammo, I like Fiocci, the ballistics are similar to the nrg out of a .22 Long Rifle, with a full length barrel. You have other cartridges in your list that carry more foot pounds of nrg, so - if you want you can just carry one of those, no? It isn't something you'd take into a battlefield, but as a last resort self defense gun, seems pretty good to me.

Personally, I like the little .32 ACP - I reload for it, and it was John Browning's first pistol cartridge and he basically could have designed anything in the world at that time, and he designed the .32 ACP. I find it very easy to shoot, and can unload the magazine on target faster than I can with my Beretta 92 and hitting your target matters more than anything else.

I admit lately I have switched from taking the CZ-70 with me to bringing the Beretta 92, but for normal times - the little CZ-70 to me is just a cool old gun, and it is smaller and easier to just grab and go in a little inner waste band holder, or drop it in a little camera case.

Don't load the .32 ACP hotter than in the reloading manuals, the brass is the limiting factor. Never had it happen, but blown cases is very unhappy.
 
Demi-human said:
I’m not sure it is wise to nearly double the energy the slide would be subject to.
Not always is the chamber pressure the limiting factor in firearm design. It’s a system. Everything has to work together.

“Oh, good! The barrel didn’t burst! Hmm.
Now how do I get this slide out of my forehead?...”

For a gun to run “32Super” it needs to be built for it.

And Woe to the pistol that receives your handloads by mistake...:eek:

Yeah, it can probably work, but to what end? Cast isn’t going to expand more. And extra bullet energy is not really “more” for these little guys. The 81 isn’t a target pistol, so decreased drop at range isn’t a thing.

I like my P-32 a lot. Mostly because it doesn’t shoot like a 9mm that size. (Looking at you, Sig938.)

Don’t try to make the 32 Auto into something it isn’t. It will damage its confidence and give it a complex, maybe send it into alcoholism. It won’t be able to hold down a mag and will lose all it shooting buddies.
If you like the 32, don’t do that to her. Get that 327!;)(Gives you a good excuse!)


And Welcome Aboard! Glad you’re here!:)
Click to expand...
.32 Super! That's exactly what I've been calling my (un-executed) "concept."

The firearm, as far as I can tell, is identical to the Beretta 84 .380. But as you point out, the .32 ACP brass may not "like" being loaded up past its intended pressure levels.

Thank you for your knowledge and perspective.
 
I'm enjoying loading for my Beretta 81. I'm getting great-to-excellent results with both the plated bullets from Berry, and coated ones from T&B. Optimal performance and accuracy seem to be around 800fps for most loads. I've tested about 9 powders so far and the best performers are VV N310 and Nobel Sport Vectan Ba10.

The others are right. If you want to hot rod, get a modern Ruger 327Mag, not a blow-back operated classic.
 
You should read up on the special 32 ACP load that was supposedly developed for the Schwarzlose blow-forward automatic. It was said to have "a booster stick of cordite coated with fulminate of mercury" inside. However, the same author states: "This is not a load to try to duplicate. It was considered unsafe in its own day, and contemporary writers remarked on the extra recoil when Schwarzlose ammo was used in other .32 pistols." https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/SLZ/slz.html
 
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GooseGestapo said:
The .32acp cartridge isn’t amenable to hot rodding.
There isn’t much case capacity to begin with. Secondly, most of the guns aren’t designed to handle the increased stress from such.

This isn’t to demean the cartridge or guns. It, and they, just are what they are...

The Beretta M81 is a sweetheart of a pistol. I’ve got one and enjoy shooting it. However, it does have its limitations.
The main one is the frame is aluminum alloy. Secondly it is a blow-back design. No barrel locking into the slide. So, the frame absorbs the energy of the slide. Both slide and frame will eventually crack from excessive recoil energy from hot loads.

I had a Beretta TomCat. It eventually had to go back to Beretta, who sent me a new replacement as both the slide and frame were cracked. (THEY NO LONGER DO THIS, BE AWARE!)
I estimate that it had fired around 3,000rds. Mostly light cast bullet loads duplicating US spec factory loads. However, I had also fed it as much as 400rds of Fiocchi 73gr ball, and 60gr JHP at the “HOT” European specs and equivalent reloads using both Speer 60gr GoldDots and Hornady 60gr XTP’s.

IMO, there is little to be gained in over loading the .32acp. A 60gr JHP at 1,000fps isn’t tossing nerf balls. Neither is a 73gr FMJ at 900fps.
The goal of reloading the .32 is safe accurate ammo that feeds reliably. Some designs can be real picky about what works. I’ve found the KelTecs and Beretta’s to be very forgiving and tolerant of the likes of flat nose, semiwadcutter, and hollow point ammo.
My favorite.32acp reload is a 78gr cast (Lyman mold) over Bullseye. Exact amount varies by pistol. My M81 likes 2.0gr and the KelTec likes 1.8gr.
I carry the Federal 65gr Hydroshocks...

First rule of gunfighting is have a gun....
The .32 in your back pocket or fannybag trumps the .40 at home or in the car trunk every time.

Added; what is really bizarre, is just how good the .32acp reloads with the 78gr LRN shoot from my Ruger Single-7. Poi/POA and decently accurate...
Click to expand...
This is great information; thank you.
 
Archie said:
I collect .32 ACP (7.65mm Browning Short, Corto, Kurz or Cort) of the early 20th Century. They are fun. Used to be cheap, but they've been 'discovered'. I don't have designed since the late 1930s and I think the last one I have made was in the 1950s.
The advertised specs are for a 71-73 grain FMJ bullet at 900 fps. None of the fourteen or so pistols I have will chronograph that fast. None. I have reloaded for the cartridge some, but it doesn't seem worth the effort. PPU makes the ammunition and some of the online vendors will sell it (in bulk) for rather low prices. I suspect the 60 grain JHP loads of insufficient penetration. Nor do I consider it a serious round for self defense.

I have tried a few cast bullets of the SWC configuration and find they do not feed well as a rule. Most of the cast SWC bullets are too heavy and finding reloading data is a bit difficult.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the perspective. I got all excited looking at Buffalo Bore's claimed performance on .32 acp hardcast. Thinking, "That's what I'm gonna get out of a Beretta 81." That would be 220 ft/lbs... a 75g bullet at 1150 ft/sc. But you guys are telling me it's not realistic.

Again, thanks for the orientation. I will reload for accuracy and reliable feeding instead of ".32 Super."
 
If you want to shoot hot .32 in a semi auto, either get one of the French guns in 7.65x20 Longue and start at max .32 ACP load data or you can really go against the grain and get some $200 custom dies from Lee and load for .32 NAA.

I think both .32 Longue and .32 NAA are criminally underrated pistol calibers, but people in the US view the .32 as a pipsqueak caliber in a semi auto and want nothing to do with it for self defense outside of the Kel Tec P32 and even that is still an uncommon gun you'll rarely see others carrying.

My hope is that with the rash of millions of new gun owners they'll venture into the .32 caliber and bring much needed demand to the market.
 
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