9mm ammo and chrono data

Charlie98 said:

No more true than with 9mm. Of all the cartridges I load for, as far as handgun cartridges, 9mm has been the biggest headache in the 35 years I've been reloading.

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It most certainly is a major pain if you’re trying to achieve bullseye accuracy. 38, 357, 44 and 45 are much more rewarding to load for. Now, I load 9mm a few to several tenths below max; enough to cycle properly and lock the slide back and I’m happy.

The only reason I was talking about going deeper is to squeeze some more ft/s from the cartridge.

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I think you are working backwards, will deeper will give you more fps, yes, but the deeper you go the more you increase pressure, so to just make up something to give an example
5gr powder X at 1.15 say 1100 fps 29000 PSI, 5gr powder X at 1.10 1130 fps 32,000 PSI
So yes you picked up vel but pressure went up to. If you are a MAX pressure at 1.15 going to 1.10 and staying inside pressure limits would require reducing the powder charge.
If for example factory data show MAX pressure at 1.15 with 5 grains and a vel of 1120 reducing the OAL to 1.10 and then working up to 1120 fps might give you a vel of 1120 fps at say 4.8 gr of powder but
the pressure will not be the same as the first load. (most likely it will be higher)
I don't load over MAX and if you decide to do it that is your choice, it is a free country...

I shoot USPSA, some people shoot 9mm Major (loads over MAX)
In almost all cases they like to load long, more space in the case for powder and loading longer lowers pressure (which they turn around and increase by using more powder)
Think of it like .38 special/.357.
If I take a load for .38 Special and put it in a .357 case, more case vol = less pressure=less velocity.

Sorry if this is long winded but if your after more vel and trying to stay in pressure limits you either need to change powders or load longer.

In pistol cals you need to have enough vel to expand bullets, but if you were hunting for example, I doubt what you shot would know the difference between say a bullet at 1100 fps and 1 at 1150, and paper targets sure won't.
Bullet drop and wind deflection won't be that much different for another 50fps.
So in IMWO it's not worth "pushing" to get a little more vel that probably won't make a real world difference in anything other than numbers on paper.

Welcome to THR, and sorry if I sound "preachy" I just like to err on the side of caution, maybe I'm just chicken in my old age.

NedNederlander said:

trying to replicate my defensive carry Federal-HST 124gr +P ammo. Basically 9mm 9x19 NATO ammo.

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OK, I think I may have a better understanding of what you are trying to do.

If you are looking to reload faster velocity rounds, you may want to consider a different powder as different powders produce different max velocities at the same SAMMI max pressures.

One nice thing about Speer online load data is they list the powders from highest max velocities to lowest max velocities - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

Here are some 9mm powders and max velocities for comparison.

• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN Blue Dot OAL 1.135" Start 7.1 gr (1121 fps) - Max 7.9 gr (1238 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN BE-86 OAL 1.135" Start 5.4 gr (1124 fps) - Max 6.0 gr (1199 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN CFE Pistol OAL 1.135" Start 4.7 gr (1024 fps) - Max 5.3 gr (1127 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN Titegroup OAL 1.135" Start 4.0 gr (1020 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1095 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN Sport Pistol OAL 1.135" Start 3.8 gr (984 fps) - Max 4.3 gr (1067 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN Bullseye OAL 1.135" Start 3.9 gr (966 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1059 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN W231 OAL 1.135" Start 4.0 gr (887 fps) - Max 4.5 gr (998 fps)

So if you want to push the bullet faster, consider powders that will produce higher max velocities like BE-86.

For decades, I have reloaded duplicate factory JHP rounds for practice with same bullets as factory (Remington Golden Saber and Speer Gold Dot) using WSF powder due to higher velocities it produced compared to other powders that were available. When BE-86 got introduced several years ago, I switched because BE-86 produced higher max velocities. And BE-86, like WSF, is another flexible powder that will produce accuracy from near max load data down to mid range load data while many slower burning than Unique/Universal tend to produce optimal accuracy at near max/max load data - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 124 gr FMJ WSF OAL 1.169" Start 4.7 gr (1,015 fps) - Max 5.3 gr (1,115 fps)

Most companies don't list +P data for 9mm, Western powders does,

https://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf

Never tried any but VV lists pretty good vels on top with 3N37.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=89


BE86 is a good choice for high end vels, so is Ramshoot Silhouette.

Welcome to THR and your new addiction.
Nice job on getting reloaded rounds down range! Regarding your chrono, one thing I do at the start of every test session is to shoot a string of factory ammo to make sure the chrono is reading correctly. I was using the UMC, but ran out and now use blazer. Your UMC data about matches mine - just FYI.
I would like to know where you got your load data for CFE Pistol. I use Hodgdon’s online reloading center, and it kinda matches what you wrote in a prior post, but the only thing I see is for:

124 GR. BERB HBRN TP
Hodgdon CFE Pistol .356" 1.150" 4.9 1,006 27,300 PSI 5.5 1,120 33,800 PSI

If so, that’s a Hollow Base Round Nose, and a Thick Plate bullet, not an FMJ but close. You’ve already gotten the message that shorter produces more pressure/velocity, so in the online data is a 125gr entry for a HAP, which isn’t your bullet also, but has a much shorter COL, with a reduced charge:

125 GR. HDY HAP
Hodgdon CFE Pistol .356" 1.069" 4.2 956 25,600 PSI 4.8 1,096 33,400 PSI

I’m not sure if you’re set on 124gr loads for SD, that’s a whole other debate, but you may want to venture in to 147gr projectiles. Good luck finding that +P equivalent, and be safe.

LiveLife said:

NedNederlander said:

A few years ago I settled on 124gr projectiles that are in the +P/NATO range for my self defense needs.

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OK, I think I may have a better understanding of what you are trying to do.

if you want to push the bullet faster, consider powders that will produce higher max velocities like BE-86.

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Thanks for the clarification. Now I realize you are looking for max velocity ... while we were concerned about max pressure.


BTW, Federal 124 gr JHP HST +P ammunition is rated at 1200 fps.


And Alliant's current online load data lists 124 gr JHP loaded to 1.120" OAL with 5.9 gr max charge of BE-86 to produce 1175 fps - https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=23

• 9mm 124 gr JHP BE-86 COL 1.120" Max 5.9 gr (1,175 fps)

And Speer online load data lists 124 gr Gold Dot HP loaded to 1.120" OAL with 6.0 gr max charge of BE-86 to produce 1199 fps - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr Speer Gold Dot HP BE-86 OAL 1.120" Start 5.4 gr (1124 fps) - Max 6.0 gr (1199 fps)

So using 6.0 gr of BE-86 with Speer Gold Dot HP projectile will get you closer to 1200 fps than pushing the limits with CFE Pistol. And for same reason, I replaced WSF which I used to produce duplicate factory practice ammunition for decades with BE-86 as it produced higher velocity and very good accuracy using the same projectiles as factory ammunition (Remington Golden Saber and Speer Gold Dot which you can buy in bulk).


But as to using your reloads for defensive rounds, this topic has been discussed to death over the years - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-for-self-defense.831563/page-2#post-10740384

While you can certainly use reloads for defense rounds, many reloaders including me choose to use factory ammunition for defense rounds as if your shooting goes to trial, it is so much easier to hand the police the pistol involved in the shooting and the box of ammunition rounds came from than police taking your entire reloading equipment setup and reloading supplies for the duration of the case for evidence (In case they need to duplicate your reloads used in the shooting) that could last years. If you have one press and small amount of reloading components, this may be fine but I have 14 presses and thousands of pounds of reloading components that will be not only inconvenient to remove for police to take but costly to purchase additional components as I reload several calibers (And money may be tight as your legal defense fee will likely cost above $30K to $100K+ depending on the length of case ... even the case is ultimately ruled justified shooting and you win the case ... Sad reality).

In comparison, simply handing the police the box of ammunition is so much easier. Key is to not empty the box but leave enough rounds in the factory box for police to conduct testing. And if you load spare magazines, make sure the lot number of additional boxes match that you are going to partially pull rounds from.