Whatever Hunting Rifle You Choose...Make sure it fits YOU!

Very helpful information, thank you. I have noticed the “cheek slap” on a couple of my rifles that have an exaggerated rearward slope. One is a rossi 92 in .454 and the other is a baikal Mp221 double gun in 30-06. Both have skinny, short, and rearward sloping combs. Both have a fairly stout recoil and dont weigh much either. Both take a while to get used to shooting and arent really pleasant to shoot, but they are extremely “handy”, powerful, and nice to carry.

I think all of your points are just as salient when equipping youth and children with a rifle and that this is often overlooked. I believe people more often focus on the cartridge which is almost totally irrelevant (if handloaded), and too often completely ignore how the rifle fits or doesn't fit.

The best advice I can give is to start with an adjustable stock. It could be on a precision rifle style chassis or more suitable for hunting, a Boyd's At One stock. I appreciate that the At One is very ugly, especially if your taste is more along the lines of traditional sporter stocks like ye olde Model 70. At One's are inexpensive enough you should at least try one before you spend a lot on a custom stock. Some fitters might have adjustable fixtures to check your length of pull and so on, but they're no replacement for getting to actually use your particular rifle and optic with various lengths of pull or comb heights. If your rifle is shared among multiple people, an adjustable stock is almost a necessity, especially if they're disparate in size and shape as are often kids, men, and women.

The thing I've noticed about virtually every off-the-shelf rifle stock from modern times is that they have practically no drop at the heel. They're made like this to provide an effectively high comb for use with a telescopic sight, but without the Monte Carlo look that only a Weatherby aficionado can appreciate. I don't believe these straight stocks shoot well standing off-hand, but apparently that style of shooting isn't fashionable in this age of 800 yards shots on deer. Look at any rifle prior to the near universal adoption of optical sights and it will have more drop at the heel. Not only does this provide a lower comb for sighting along the top of the bore, but it also brings the bore up just under the eye without having to scrunch your head down between your shoulders. It can indeed cause you to feel more recoil since the butt stock is oblique rather than inline with the bore.

If you stand naturally, you can either have the bore inline with your eye or with your shoulder. To have it inline with both, you cannot stand naturally, but must assume some kind of prone or scrunched posture. An optic mounted well above the axis of the bore can allow for a more upright position with the butt still on the shoulder. However, an optic may be too far above the shoulder for a young person so that when they align the optic with their eye, the butt is in their armpit.

This is why I personally don't purchase rifles with "hog back" style stocks. They don't fit me well for their use and recoil angle becomes an issue with increasing levels of recoil. I might consider one in say 6.5X54mm M-S if one fell in my lap at a bargain price, but not a 7mm RM or .300 WM. To each his own.

I find that if the stock length is too long for me, I get extra recoil and smacked good.

Picher said:

Over many years, people have come to me complaining about rifles that don't fit, or kick the snot out of them.

Some of the problems with gunstocks that cause extra FELT recoil, pain, inaccuracy include:

1. Wrong buttstock angle. Stocks that don't have much drop, especially when used with scopes don't feel as bad to the shooter.

2. Too low a comb or the wrong angle. The comb should best be sloped forward a bit or parallel with the bore, but not backwards, if possible. That way, recoil pulls it slightly away from the cheek instead of smashing itself into it.

3. Wrong buttstock length for the user. If it's too long for the shooter, the person will have to lean back to shoot it from standing, instead of leaning slightly forward. Leaning away from the shot direction makes the gun recoil more upward and makes second shots slow and usually too high. This is important for both rifles and shotguns. Sometimes the thumb on the trigger hand will impact the cheek or eye, causing pain and flinch on the next shots.

4. Butt wrong angle, narrow, hard. Perpendicular to the bore is usually best, resulting in lower felt recoil, quick recovery, more accurate rifle shots. Accomodates best to various shooter positions. Many older stocks have toes that are back farther than the heel. That's bad, but too far forward is also detrimental.

5. Recoil pad...Has great benefit besides dampening felt recoil, but reduces slippage on the shoulder as well. Mounted correctly, can provide better fit, absorb recoil, and increase accuracy by reducing slippage.

You may or may not agree, but look at your rifles with these situations in mind. You may be able to correct the situation by strap-on cheek rests, recoil pads, or length changes. A good gunsmith or knowledgeable shooter can help...if you ask.

JP

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I have seen that a lot of people have a buttstock that is improperly sized for them. Many people who feel they need a youth size could benefit from a longer stock and vise verse.

Let me ask this. Some one goes to his LGS buys a rifle. The people that made this rifle should have most of this figured in the engeneering of the rifle. I under stand every one is differnt. Don't you think most or some of the problems should be addresd when building the rifle?

And the same principles apply even moreso to shotguns

I have a 700 Remington in.308. I've never been able to shoot more than 15 rounds in a sitting, and my shoulder is always green in the morning. I won a Thompson Center Venture in .300 Win Mag, and was anticipating punishing recoil, and it turned out to be a pussycat, pleasant to shoot. Shot a Ruger GSR in .308 and could shoot it until I went broke buying ammo. I need to find someone who can help tame that Remington.

0ne3 said:

Let me ask this. Some one goes to his LGS buys a rifle. The people that made this rifle should have most of this figured in the engeneering of the rifle. I under stand every one is differnt. Don't you think most or some of the problems should be addresd when building the rifle?

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Overwhelmingly, hunting rifles are sold as "one size fits all." The manufacturers seem to believe that buyers are obsessed with the cartridges they're chambered in and the finishes (blued and walnut or trademark camo and cerakote, etc.) and nothing else. I can't think of one rifle dealt at big retailers that comes in any more than one size stock. Certainly Winchester, Ruger, Weatherby, Savage, Browning and Remington don't sell more than one stock size for each model.

Besides fitting different size folks, there can also be different sights or optics choices, and different shooting positions. A stock made for standing and shooting with open sights off-hand is not going to fit the same as a stock made for shooting prone with a 56mm optic. The vertical distance between the shoulder and the eye is just too different. Even if you're the average shooter, in the average position, with the average optic, the rifle probably still won't fit because rifle manufacturers have determined that many people shopping for a hunting rifle won't buy one that doesn't look a certain traditional way. Since rifles are most often sold separately from optics, the rifles are often made to conform to this traditional appearance that was established prior to telescopic sights, and there isn't much regard to compatibility to different optics that could have the exit pupil at different heights.

Picher said:

end up getting "squished" between gun and wall

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Did that to myself shooting pigeons out of tree as a kid with a 12ga.

0ne3 said:

Let me ask this. Some one goes to his LGS buys a rifle. The people that made this rifle should have most of this figured in the engeneering of the rifle. I under stand every one is differnt. Don't you think most or some of the problems should be addresd when building the rifle?

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They are if you order a true custom rifle.
There are some attempts to allow shooters to adjust their stocks to fit. Some offer mechanically adjustable stocks like the @1s that are on cz457s and other, or shims that can be added or removed like Savage, and Ruger do for some of their guns.

Pudge said:

I have a 700 Remington in.308. I've never been able to shoot more than 15 rounds in a sitting, and my shoulder is always green in the morning. I won a Thompson Center Venture in .300 Win Mag, and was anticipating punishing recoil, and it turned out to be a pussycat, pleasant to shoot. Shot a Ruger GSR in .308 and could shoot it until I went broke buying ammo. I need to find someone who can help tame that Remington.

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Sounds like a stock fit issue; there is a LOT more to fit than simply LOP. Take a rifle that you KNOW doesn't beat you up and take the stock measurements, including pitch and compare to your other rifle. I did this with shotguns; my Browning fits very well, my expensive Beretta wasn't doing so well - until I took ALL of the measurements and noticed the differences in pitch, comb thickness, drop at heel and drop at comb. What a diference that was noted; when I adjusted the stock (it has an adjustable comb) suddenly I was hotting targets and not getting cheek slap

The Baikal SxS 12ga that beat me mercilessly was taken and shortened 1/8 inch at a time. I finally took off about a half inch. Then took about another inch. Installed a inch thick soft butt. And now I can shoot clays all day and not get a recoil migraine.

My Barrett m99 also. It fits me well enough. But Patrick.... not so much. It'll pop him good. 3 rounds is his limit on the 50cal.

So yes fit is mighty important.

labnoti said:

Overwhelmingly, hunting rifles are sold as "one size fits all." The manufacturers seem to believe that buyers are obsessed with the cartridges they're chambered in and the finishes (blued and walnut or trademark camo and cerakote, etc.) and nothing else. I can't think of one rifle dealt at big retailers that comes in any more than one size stock. Certainly Winchester, Ruger, Weatherby, Savage, Browning and Remington don't sell more than one stock size for each model.

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I kindly beg to differ:
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/savage-110-hunter-bolt-action-rifle

Pudge said:

I have a 700 Remington in.308. I've never been able to shoot more than 15 rounds in a sitting, and my shoulder is always green in the morning. I won a Thompson Center Venture in .300 Win Mag, and was anticipating punishing recoil, and it turned out to be a pussycat, pleasant to shoot. Shot a Ruger GSR in .308 and could shoot it until I went broke buying ammo. I need to find someone who can help tame that Remington.

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700adl plastic stock? Even if an at-1 doesn't trip your trigger, even a cheap choate would likely improve what you're experiencing......at-1 with a grind to fit kickeez or limbsaver would turn that completely around.

Picher said:

Does the Rem 700 have a recoil pad? Is it the right length for you? A Limbsaver pad would probably tame that puppy. Could lengthen the stock a bit if it's too short.

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Limbsaver and Pachmyer offer highly effective slip-on recoil pads as well. That was my solution to the synthetic stocked Steyr Pro Hunter in .30-06 Springfield I bought several years ago ( before my torn retina event). That stock's recoil pad is a sorry joke IMO, but there are spacers for LOP adjustment. I removed 1" of spacer and added a slip-on Limbsaver pad from Amazon. Really tamed that down! I'm on blood thinners (Eliquis) and no bruises at all after that modification.

Mr. Zorg said:

Limbsaver and Pachmyer offer highly effective slip-on recoil pads as well. That was my solution to the synthetic stocked Steyr Pro Hunter in .30-06 Springfield I bought several years ago ( before my torn retina event). That stock's recoil pad is a sorry joke IMO, but there are spacers for LOP adjustment. I removed 1" of spacer and added a slip-on Limbsaver pad from Amazon. Really tamed that down! I'm on blood thinners (Eliquis) and no bruises at all after that modification.

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I'll second the claim of amazing effectiveness of the thick Limbsaver slip-on pad. With no particular application in mind I picked one up for a couple of dollars on clearance sale someplace. A few months later my 130 pound wife was shooting my Auto-5 (hard plastic butt plate) with buckshot and it was quickly getting rough on her shoulder. I slipped the Limbsaver pad on and tried it myself to see if it might help her. It was almost like I'd switched to a 28 gauge. The slip-on pad is an eyesore, but they are amazing at reducing felt recoil, IME.