What my hunting rifles have evolved into over the years.

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H&Hhunter

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I was at the range with my daughter last week and got to thinking about what I tend to carry for a hunting rifle. My hunting rifles have evolved over the years and I am at a point where I've noticed that all of my hunting rifles share some common traits.

Weight;

I've been through the ultra light weight phase and truthfully I find ultra light rifles to be more trouble than they are worth. They are difficult to shoot well from non, hard supported rested, positions. The weight you save carrying a 5.5 lbs rifle isn't worth the lack in "shootability". Add about 3 lbs in a properly balanced rifle and it solves those shooting issues and it's NOT that much more to carry.

Most of my rifles weigh about 8 lbs plus or minus a bit.

Length;

I have owned several rifle with 26+" barrels on them and truthfully I find them to be a compromise in the field. The little tiny bit of velocity gain is not worth the clumsiness that those extra inches cause when carrying your rifle in the field, especially not on a horse where I spend a lot of time. They also become cumbersome getting in or out of a truck or a jeep or a bush plane. The longest barrel I own at the moment is on a .375H&H with a 25" barrel. But the majority of my rifles are 22". With the exception of a couple of long range specific rifles in my inventory. One is a .270 Weatherby with a 24 & 3/4" barrel the other a .300 WM with a 24" barrel.

If it's standard caliber and it's in my safe it's got a 22" or shorter barrel on it. I find any loss of velocity to be well compensated for in handiness and shootability with a shorter barrel.

Scopes;

I will not own a scope that has a bottom end of greater than 3x and 3x is the absolute top end of where my scopes bottom out at. Most are maxed out at 8 power a couple at 10 and one at 12 power but it's a 2x12X. I find the lower end to be infinitely more useable than the top end on a scope. My hunting style tends to be still hunting in thick stuff and I tend to get some closer range shots and some shots on fast moving game. If my scope is on 2 power or 2.5 I can make those shots happen easily. If I am carrying a 4X whatever or 5.5x whatever scope I can not hunt the way I am most productive and enjoy the most. If I have a longer shot I always have time to turn he power up on my scope and am golden out to the 400 ish yard range. If you jump something in the brush at close range you will not have time to turn your scope down to make the shot.

The majority of my scopes are in the 2x8 average power magnification range.

Comb height;

For a scoped rifle this might well be one of the most critical shootability issues there is in my book. Comb height is one of the most important factors in making a rifle shootable. When you bring a rifle to your shoulder and your face is cheeked up hard on the comb you should be seeing nothing but cross hair. If you have to move your eye up or down or slide your face back or forward your rifle is not set up right for you. Once you've played around with a properly scoped rifle with a proper comb height anything else will feel clumsy, awkward and slow. It took me a long time to figure this out but once I was shown how to scope a rifle and fix the comb height if needed my shooting on game got exponentially better.

The way most rifles are set up from the factory you'll need to mount your scope as low as possible and if you are using a objective bell size of greater than about 40MM your scope by necessity will have to be mounted too high for proper cheek weld and eye alignment with your scope. In that case you can either get a strap on or a glue on cheek pad which will raise your comb height. Brownells sells just about anything you need in that department.

Almost all of my rifles have a 32MM or a 36MM objective bell scope and if larger all of them have a comb elevator of some sort attached. The majority of rifles I see now days have the scopes mounted too high for proper eye alignment.

My serious hunting rifle tend to have synthetic stocks of decent quality. And they tend to have triggers that break clean in the 3 to 4 lb pull range. They also almost all have sear blocking not trigger blocking safeties this is a personal preference that I demand on a serious hard use hunting rifle.

For my style of hunting this is what my rifles have morphed into over the years. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but this is what has proven to works for me.

What have you found works best for your style of hunting?
 
My experiences absolutely mirror yours, right down to comb fit and optic preferences. That's probably because I hunt a lot on foot. I will add that I find most modern rifles, as shipped, to not have enough drop to maintain a decent cheek weld and also allow the stock to be well positioned in the pocket. I prefer a stock with a parallel comb that aligns with the bore center as closely as possible and that sports a modest drop to the heel and toe - not exactly a Monte Carlo (since that comb is NOT parallel) but close. I also tend towards rifles that stay under 8lbs with optic, but not much more - if the rifle can't balance on the front receiver ring or slightly forward then it won't 'settle' well when shot offhand IMO.

I suppose that if I hunted from a stand with a rest, I might find it easier to make more 'modern' comb and optic choices work.
 
very interesting post! i love watching the progression over the years of rifle styles. been through a lot of the 'phases' with ARs and going through them with precision rifles.

i continue to find it interesting that so many people in the shotgun crowd are very knowledgeable in properly fitting the gun to the shooter, but even a lot of serious rifle shooters couldn't pick the comb out of a lineup.

my style of hunting is sitting on a hilltop overlooking 500 yards or so and watching for hogs or coyotes. so my scopes are mostly 5-25x. barrel length has come down from 29" to 25" for me. my rifles are usually about 17 lbs. heavy but totally agree on the weight being worth the shootability. i use adjustable cheek pieces and i usually have to set my scopes a little higher than i want due to the night vision clip-ons. i don't put safeties in my bolt guns.
 
Started with a HK91 and mounted a first gen Aimpoint on it.
Then bought a Rem 700 Stainless with synthetic stock and 3x9 variable.
Then bought a '64 Win 94 Saddle Ring carbine.
Then I built what I liked from each into one rifle, which I'd describe:

The military sporter self loading actions work just fine. No manipulating a bolt or lever, nor do you have to move your head, reacquire a sight, and be delayed. Hunting in broken woodland or open fields in the Ozarks means most shots are under 75 yards and rarely past 200, so an intermediate caliber is more than effective in putting out 1000 pounds of energy for whitetail - out to 350-400m. Shorter barrels are much easier to carry moving thru dense brush in the "open" pockets, and tangle less under canopy in forest. They are lighter and the finish doesn't scar or devalue the firearm as quickly. Plus, no worries about a quick rainstorm, it'll dry off soon enough and nothing will hurt the anodizing, parkerizing, etc.

And upper with a rail mount allows almost ANY sight. Putting a red dot on game and pulling the trigger, vs. finding a set of dark crosshairs on a dark animal in overcast condition? It's far easier. Plus, I see the animal in full figure, able to choose the target spot, rather than attempt to discern just what patch of fur I might be looking at with 8 power.

Lighter is definitely better, its easier to swing, mount, and get a cheek weld than three pounds heavier. Heavy long barrels aren't conducive to seeing the animal step into view with a three second window to make a decision, aim, and pull trigger.

It also goes to length of pull on the stock - the larger guns are great for position or prone shooting, 100% of my hunting shots are standing or seated and facing the animal. With a insulated winter coat ,a rifle with "optimal" length of pull is too long, and it can put your eye back too far to quickly see in a scope with a short range of eye relief. And if it has a bigger cartridge with a lot of recoil, best you pad your eyebrow before leaving the house. Too close and a scope ring will magically appear on the first shot, blocking your vision from running blood.

Your mileage may vary, what happened while I was trying out hunting rifles was 22 years of carrying, training, and shooting the M16, which became ingrained with a much larger amount of muscle memory. When you get 55, it then becomes a notable thought that retraining and throwing away most of those ingrained habits is a huge waste. Better to exploit them with a compatible rifle. So, I built an AR in 6.8SPC, with red dot, 16" barrel, and have recently modified it even more deleting the clamp on FSB and rear carry handle sight, adding a much more compact red dot, and changing from A1 to carbine Minimalist stock with Apex Gatorgrip free float.

Much lighter than the .308 or .30-06, quick to shoot, impervious to any weather, acquires a target quickly, and recoil is minimal. With nose to the charging handle cheek weld, it's easy shortened two clicks wearing a heavy hunting jacket. The red dot is still 5 inches away - they have never been an issue.

A light powerful carbine capable of hitting deer without hampering the shooter. Pretty much the best of all possible types, which I've tried and each of which has it's disadvantage. The AR? Every hunter in the parking lot thinks the magazine has thirty rounds and the gun is full auto. The reality is that I hear them cranking their manual actions in a rushed hurry chasing the view of a bounding white tail - which comes my way for just one shot.

I appreciate the help.
 
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In all sincerity and with respect I must say that your hunting rifles [Edit: and Tirod's!] have evolved over the years to a point very close to Jeff Cooper's "Scout" ideal. He was the first to tell you that he did not invent the term, only that he used it to define "light, handy... and friendly". Whatever you do, don't! shoot a Steyr Mannlicher Scout in .308 (Steyr did also for a time produce this fine carbine in a .376 which you might appreciate!).

I've been enamored always with shorter-barreled stuff. All of my rifles have 21" or shorter barrels. It is awfully nice to hear someone of your extensive experience remind those of us with far less hunting experience what it is that matters to you, especially when it coincides with an inherent "sense" or intrinsic ideal (for lack of a better way of putting it). I can't take any credit for any of this; others like yourself and Colonel Cooper have paved the way before us.


:)
 
i don't put safeties in my bolt guns.
Interesting point here - I will not have a bolt action field rifle that does NOT have a safety that locks the bolt. I prefer three position safeties (everything locked, trigger locked, everything unlocked and ready to rock) but can accept a two position safety *if* it locks the bolt.

I've had my bolt handle come up on me unnoticed while I was scrabbling around in the brush, back when I hunted with a rifle that only had a two position safety that didn't lock the bolt. If I'd have needed or wanted a snap shot, I would have been mighty disappointed to find that the rifle wouldn't have fired.
 
I agree with just about everything you said... though I prefer a little shorter barrel (18-20" is perfect for me for anything in the .308 type category), and I have no problem shooting lighter weight rifles offhand (I prefer them actually). I absolutely agree on having a low minimum power on optics. One other thing I've found is that glass quality is much more important than magnification or anything else on a scope... animals come out in the early morning and late dusk, which is the kind of lighting that separates the junk from the real deal. Even for a 300 yard shot, I'd much rather have a 1-4x with good glass than a 3-9x or 4-14x with mediocre glass. I used a 1-4x scope to good effect last season.

I couldn't agree more about comb height being very important. We were just talking about that in another couple threads. Eye relief also goes hand-in-hand with that. Most shooters I see have way too low of a comb, and have the scope set way too far to the rear. Many factory scope mounts don't even allow the scope to be mounted as far forward as it needs to be for me to get proper eye relief, and I'm not that big of a guy. My Savage 110 was that way... the factory 2-piece mount wouldn't work with me at all. Oh well, it was a good excuse to upgrade to a 20 MOA one-piece picatinny mount.

When it comes to irons, give me notch sights any day over aperture/ghost ring. They're much better for those low light situations that are so common in hunting.
 
Whatever you do, don't! shoot a Steyr Mannlicher Scout in .308

Nicehog1.jpg

200Apples,

Sorry too LATE!!:D

I bought one of the first Steyr Scouts ever available to the public and have been shooting game with it ever since. I did however change the scope from the standard 2.5 IER to a 1X4 IER which IMO increases the usability and versatility of the scout platform by quite a bit. One of the areas where the scout concept falls flat for me was trying to pick out that grey mule deer in the grey brush at low light with a 2.5X scope. You'd pick him up with binos and then loose him again with your scope. I had similar issues with other critters at certain times as well. The 1x4 fixes that for the most part.
 
Interesting point here - I will not have a bolt action field rifle that does NOT have a safety that locks the bolt.

i don't close the bolt until my sights are on on the target (or pretty dang close). i think that's much safer than a "safety". safeties are also difficult to come by on quality left handed triggers. and they are a point of frequent malfunctions, so eliminating them is a good thing.

i hold rifles with a pretty vertical firing grip. not like a shotgun where my thumb is high up. so my thumb is nowhere near the traditional safety location. thus, i can run the bolt as fast as i can disengage the safety. also, at the distances i would be shooting, noise is not a concern


btw, Greg, that is the ugliest looking mule deer I ever saw
 
The reason I like a safety that locks the bolt down has little to do with a carrying a chambered round. I like the bolt to be locked down during a hike because I HATE when I find that my bolt slid open and has allowed all manner of dirt an twigs and gravel to enter my action during a climb or a long hike while the rifle was slung. During transport I close the bolt on an empty chamber and lock the bolt down with the safety. I honestly wont own a rifle that has a safety that doesn't lock the bolt down.
 
Open country, I mostly used my 9.5-pound, 26" '06. Otherwise, generally below eight pounds. Balance slightly "muzzle heavy" makes them steadier for off-hand shooting without a rest. Any kind of field rest? No problem.

101% in accord with "fit" of my rifles. So far, so good without "tweaking".

Safety? Never had a problem when walking-hunting. Sitting, I leave the bolt-handle up.

Rarely will I have a scope turned up above the lowest magnification, except on prairie dogs or when sighting in. I learned that 3X is plenty good for Bambi at 350 yards. :)
 
Jack O'Connor thought that a fixed 4 power was a perfect scope for big game hunting but they have never been enough power for me. I hunt with my variable scopes set on 6 power and I regularly shoot running deer with confidence. If I want a 8.5 pound rifle I use a rifle with a fixed 6 power scope. I don't have a hunting rifle that weighs less than 8.5 pounds because I can carry a 9 pound rifle and never notice the weight. I also agree that most of the new rifles with straight comb stocks are not that great for easy scope use. I think the pre 64 Model 70 monte carlo is the perfect design for using a scope. I also won't use a rifle for hunting that doesn't have a 3 position safety that locks the firing pin instead of the trigger. Bullets & scopes have improved but quality hunting rifles are much the same as they were 50 years ago.
 
Great thread.

I have changed a lot over the years.

When I first started hunting in my early twentires it was with a borrowed Remington 760 in .270 with a vintage Redfield scope on it. The slide was pretty sticky but it was accurate. I wasnt and missed my first deer.

Still not knowing much about guns, I bought a Remington 700 in .243 with a synthetic stock for $250 from a pawn shop. It happened to have a Zeiss scope on it but otherwise the gun is pretty crappy. It has a cheap black stock and doesnt like to load from the magazine. But it is also accurate and killed my first couple of deer.

Then I went the expensive exotic route with nice rifles in cool calibers. But I was more concerned with hurting the rifle than I was shooting something. The last one was a Winchester 70 in 6.5x55. It killed a doe.

Finally I am back to where I started with a 1968 760 this time in 30-06. It is a $400 smooth accurate killing machine.

I still buy nice rifles and have a thing for American Weatherby's, all Winchesters, 788s, etc. But the killing is with the old 760.
 
My hunting rifles

My first was an iron sighted Marlin 30-30, my second was a Savage 110 in 270.
that was over 25 years ago, now I have a Marlin, Winchester, and Savage 99 leverguns ( 3 different calibers) and a host of vintage Mausers.
the model 99, the slide 30-30 and one mauser are scoped; the rest are iron sights, the ones I hunt with have barrels of 22" or less, most are 20", the lone exception is the 24" barreled model 99. The distances I hunt don't require long tubes, even both my Antelopes were taken with a 22" barrel @ under 200 yards. :D
 
Over the past 30 years, my rifles have evolved in a similar fashion:

Much shorter barrels, 16" to 20" max.
Moved from Ultra Light to mid 7 pounds weight rifles.
Scope objectives have gone from 50's down to the 20mm to 36mm size.
Scope power has come down to 1 x something and one 1 x 6 Z6.
Prices of scopes are now more expensive instead of sub $1000 scopes.
Cartridge size has come way down to 30-06/.308 levels.
Stocks are now traditional sporters and no Monte Carlo and am moving towards straight grip stocks instead of the pistol grip style.
Have moved back to wood stocks over synthetic.
ALL of my rifles have good iron sights as a back-up.
Handloads focus on accuracy instead of FPS.
I focus less on custom features on the rifle and focus on practice instead.
 
I have a custom Springfield with a Mashburn trigger -- similar to what you find on most rifles nowadays. One nasty day in the Rockies, I had moisture invade the "box" that contains the mechanism and freeze up.

Now I hunt with a pre-64 Model 70 or a custom Mauser with the original trigger.
 
Guess I'm out of the loop, still grab one of my pre 64 M70's out of safe and abackup. Cal depends on what I'm hunting. They are all topped with Leupold glass.
Dan
 
.270 Winchester Browning BAR came with irons in 1992, still has them, is scoped with a 1.5-6 x32 Bausch and Lomb since 1994 mounted on see-through rings, which I do not particularly like, but I could never let go the use of sights at close range or as a backup. Wood and blued steel. I never felt the need to change.
I added a TC Encore for muzzleloader season. It is synthetic, stainless and wears only fibre optic sights. Good tool.
Recently added a Winchester SXP Defender for backup gun during rifle (yes, I know it is not a rifle, but it is legal up here) season. Is wears a 1-4 x32 Bushnell banner mounted on a Weaver rail. This one still has to prove itself in the field and if everything goes right, it won't.
 
Mine haven't really evolved into anything all that different than what I started with...but they did get a lot more expensive.

My first bolt action was Remington 700 in 25-06 (mid 1980's)...at least a couple of hundred have passed through my hands since then...my current rifle is Nosler M48 Custom in 280 Ackley (won't actually have it for another month or so...but it is ordered)

My taste I rifles hasn't changed much, if at all...but I quickly grew tired of the often poor craftsmanship displayed in today's off the shelf rifles.

Maybe the poor craftsmanship was always there and I just didn't notice until I became more educated about the finer points of what makes a rifle "tick".
 
What have you found works best for your style of hunting?
Carbines (bolt or semi auto) with a red dot or irons.

I hunt in thick NC woods. Deer and coyotes are really the only thing worth hunting (with a rifle) where I am. Possible shots out to 250-300 yards, but the vast majority are within 25.

I have three main hunting rifles, two AK's and a cheap little 17" Savage .30-06. All three are about the same length, and a pleasure to carry through brush. When all three are setup and ready to hunt, the AK's are about 8-8.5lbs, and the Savage is about 6.5lbs. So far, the only downside I've found is that they're loud. I don't hunt without plugs or electronic ear pro.

My needs, and the needs of someone hunting the CO Rockies, are vastly different. Heck, I plan on making a move to handgun hunting this season with some .45 Super-level hand loads... Don't think that'd fly well for Elk that are 250 yards away :D
 
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