Deactivated machinegun

I just looked at the auction, just taking it at its word.. It says its a transferable Maxim and someone somewhere decided to weld up the bolt..

Now there is a story there I am sure.. Possible museum piece????

If an MG is transferable, it would need the proper forms/taxes no matter what kind of condition it is in.

And where as it was "deactivated" it was not chopped up. But this screams for an up close and personal visit before bidding.
But if it is a legal transferable MG, you can fix it up to make it run. Breaking the welds, replacing the hurt parts..

Do you have the link to the RIA auction, I would like to see it.

Deactivated is not destroyed, legally.

ATF publishes guidelines on how to destroy an NFA item so as to render it "not an NFA item". Welding the chamber and barrel to the receiver is not generally compliant with the requirements for destruction.

Sounds like it's an NFA Machine Gun, that some idiot ruined with a welder. . . but it's likely still an NFA Machine Gun.

Machine Shop Dude said:

. . . but 8000 seems to much. . .

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When buying a machine gun, you're buying a tax stamp almost as much as a mechanical device.

If it’s on a form 4, as a machinegun, it’s a machinegun. If someone made it so it can’t fire, it’s just a machinegun you can’t shoot.

Sometimes you read people talking about “destroyed” machinegun receivers, yet I have never had any takers when I say I would buy a “worthless” receiver and pay the taxes for the transfer of the form 4.

Folks would be surprised what can be made to work again, especially when “just make another” hasn’t been a option since May 19 1986.

It is a dewat. "Deactivated war trophy"

Here is the dope:

https://www.ficarettalegal.com/dewat-firearms-and-how-they-are-regulated-under-federal-law/

Conelrad

Machine Shop Dude said:

So looking on gunbroker and found a maxim 08 water cooled on Indiana on form 4 seller says. Price starting bib is 8000 with no takers.

The mg is a deactivated mg with barrel welded to receiver and chamber welded shut. The seller states it can be reactivated?

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This sounds a little unusual. First of all, guns are not "on" the various forms. The forms are transactional in nature. If the seller has a Form 4 for the gun, that means that the previous transfer was taxable, that is, presumably it was a live gun at that point. Registered DEWATs (deactivated war trophies, that were registered in the 1968 amnesty) are normally transferred tax-free on Form 5. Such guns can be reactivated by filing a Form 1 and paying a $200 "making" tax. Thereafter, they transfer as regular machine guns using Form 4.

What I suspect is that a previous owner did exactly that -- he filed a Form 1 to reactivate the DEWAT, but then just never got around to actually doing it. He then sold it as a live machine gun (on paper) even though physically it was still deactivated. Since it's a live machine gun on ATF's records, anyone buying it now (using Form 4) could reactivate it with no further paperwork.

Machine Shop Dude said:

I wish I would make the 5 hour drive to look at it if it was permissible to bring it back to working order but 8000 seems to much for a gun the sold at RIA for less than 7000 in the last few year's and required no work.

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$8,000 is a low price for a transferable Maxim. I would guess that the $7,000 you mention was for a restricted "dealer sample." Anyway, the $8,000 is just for openers. The final price could be much higher.

Does the offering include the sled mount? That alone could be worth bucks.

I had a Georgia Tech classmate who did just that with a Dewat Mg 08/15, registered it as live during the amnesty.
I guess the dormitory maid got used to seeing a machine gun by his bunk.
Never heard if he successfully rewated it.

The trick is that if a gun is registered as a dewat or deactivated gun, it can be made live again. If it has been "destroyed" and is no longer considered a machine gun, it can not be made into a live shooter again. Whatever the status of this gun presently, it can be made into a shooter again.

Machine Shop Dude said:

if you look up RIA in 2017 one sold fully functional and transferable for less than 7000.

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That's three years ago, a lifetime in NFA.
One in a current Morphy's is $15K; OOW is at $18.5K; similar prices at other dealers.
So, $7K is actually a great price and leaves a lot of "room" for getting a replacement barrel and such work as the receiver might need. (Getting on a gunplumber's schedule might be the harder task.)
Rebarreling is middling common as a way to move to less-expensive ammo. 7mauser used to be common; 7.62x39 has started gaining favor.
A Registered Dewat is Registered. That's what makes it valuable, it's already in the Registry. Normally, that hikes the sale prices up.

I’ve re wasted a few. Worst one was the barrel was welded into the grunion out of the water jacket. Had to bore out the grunion and re sleeve it. Be real careful looking at how it was defatted, ask for close up pics of the welds.