Should "Legal" Gun Owners Be Allowed to Carry On Boats, Trains, Busses and Planes In the USA?

Ernie Bass said:

When I hear something like this, I always think of The New York Shooting of 25 people aboard the Long Island Rail Road. Watched the trial all the way through with this nut job. He just went down the isle killing everyone. If only one person had a CCW, might have made a huge difference.
https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/mass-murder/colin-ferguson/

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You are right, just one armed citizen could have stopped Ferguson's slaughter but as far as I know there is no prohibition on carry aboard the LIRR. I lived in the area at the time and I've never heard of one.

I checked yes but I would still prohibit carry on commercial airlines. Too many people too close together. As a police officer I can go almost anywhere with my gun and citizens should have the same rights. Actually, they DO have the same rights, its just illegal for them to exercise some of those rights and that needs to change.

George P said:

So, you have no issue violating the corporate policies you agreed to when hired and then lied about it..............says a lot about you.

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Mr. Clayton is correct, his life and his coworker's lives are more important than some "policy" made by an incompetent bureaucrat. I know the usual BS about going to work somewhere else but that's real easy to say but usually almost impossible to do. Nobody should have to choose between feeding his kids or risking his life because of his employer's negligence and stupidity.

I believe we should all have the right to return fire

I have zero problems with places that prohibit the carrying of weapons IF they also prevent the carrying weapons. I take my kid to amusement parks pretty regularly. All who enter, including employees, must pass through a metal detector. Not my preference, but as long as they make sure the dude in front of me and the one behind aren't carrying, I can live with it. It's a trade-off, just like wearing those stupid masks. But it's a requirement if I want to use their facilities.

It should NOT be illegal to carry anywhere that just hangs a sign on the door and hopes everyone abides.

So, if the boats,trains, planes, and public transit are able to verify they have no firearms aboard, then I'm fine with them not being allowed.

c1ogden said:

Mr. Clayton is correct, his life and his coworker's lives are more important than some "policy" made by an incompetent bureaucrat. I know the usual BS about going to work somewhere else but that's real easy to say but usually almost impossible to do. Nobody should have to choose between feeding his kids or risking his life because of his employer's negligence and stupidity.

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Sorry, then you go find employment elsewhere; no one is forcing to work at a place that violates your personal code of ethics

There are a lot of legal gun owners I wouldn’t trust with a fork let alone a gun. Put them on the plane.....nah.

That and we’ve pretty much decided as a society that corporations can make their own rules almost regardless of the constitution.

George P said:

So, you have no issue violating the corporate policies you agreed to when hired and then lied about it..............says a lot about you.

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<shrug> yes it does. Says I will not be cowering in a corner waiting my turn to die but, I do not condone this or promote it for anyone else. Everyone has to make up their own mind on life and how they wish to live. Since I have a lot more years behind me than in front of me sure I will never need the gun but, I am also sure that every person who sat hidden in a corner waiting their turn to be shot "thought" it would never happen to them too. Guns are certainly NOT for everyone. A LOT of people should not own one but sadly do.

Mosesiii21 said:

It isn't a right if the government "allows" or you have to get permission to do it. Also, If everyone else knows there is a good possibility that someone else in their vicinity is carrying a weapon, they are less likely to use a weapon. If a person does try to use it, the threat can be neutralized within a few seconds. So yes, we should allow any citizen to carry anywhere. Generally speaking, most of the mass shootings happen in areas that are gun free zones. Only problem there is criminals don't follow the rules and a "Gun Free Zone" sign means nothing. Sooner or later you either deter those who plan to do harm, or get rid of a majority of those who do try it. Just my take. Take care all.

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I often think of the well known quote from Heinlein from one of his great books. An armed society is a polite society. When I watch some of the stuff going on with scum attacking elderly, who are defenseless, while they film themselves doing it to laugh? That quote of his often comes to mind.

c1ogden said:

You are right, just one armed citizen could have stopped Ferguson's slaughter but as far as I know there is no prohibition on carry aboard the LIRR. I lived in the area at the time and I've never heard of one.

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Often it's just a matter of no one who really wanted to carry. Really sad when it happens but it is the way it is here. What bothers me more than anything is how every time some scum does this the "answer" is lets pass yet another law Since the scum ignored all the other laws lets pass one more law, surely that will fix it. I have a better idea. When these scum show they no longer want to live in a civilized society we no longer allow them to live in one with the rest of us. Of course that's not going to happen though so I keep going best I can for me and mine.

IJ1981 said:

Just checking. 83% say yes. Overwhelming.
Thank you, THR.

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Now if we could just get 80% or more of the gun owning public to VOTE to keep the rights we have!

Ironicaintit said:

I believe we should all have the right to return fire

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There are two ways to deal with airline hijackings: either no one has a gun aboard an airliner, or else everyone does. In the latter case, if a passenger shows up without a gun, he will be issued one for the duration of the flight.

Satisfied? (Just hope there is no crazy person, drunk, etc., aboard your flight.)

This thread is loony tunes.

IJ1981 said:

This should be very simple. Board a COMMERCIAL train, boat, bus or plane with a firearm as a American Citizen with NO deferrals.

Is that OK?

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Well, it is not simple, aboard a ship at sea or a commercial airliner there are other laws that may over ride common law. Like in the military, when you board such a vessel of the sea or air you surrender certain rights and privileges. Otherwise you can drive your auto or swim if you must have your gun.

If the boats, trains, busses and planes are privately owned it should be the choice of the owner, CEO, board or whoever’s in charge.
If it’s public, as in government owned or subsidized then yes.

I put boats and trains in a different category than planes. A negligent discharge on a train or boat will not necessarily cause the destruction of said vehicle, but a pressurized plane I would not want to risk it. That said I am great with checking a gun on your flight and getting as soon as you land.

So far 37 have voted Yes and 5 are off in a small closet singing the Looney Tunes!

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Somehow I wouldn't have expected anything else on a gun board.

The 2nd is pretty clear . Keep & Bear arms. This constitution amendment is one of the most bastardized of the bill of rights, and continues to be attacked with vigor . I of course had to vote yes. It really is the only legal answer.

mnrivrat said:

The 2nd is pretty clear . Keep & Bear arms. This constitution amendment is one of the most bastardized of the bill of rights, and continues to be attacked with vigor . I of course had to vote yes. It really is the only legal answer.

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Sadly most of the gun owning public long ago decided that 2A was not a "right" it was a privilege. Once the vast majority made it clear they felt it was not a right, that law makers could decide privilege, well Pandora's box was open and it's never going to close now. So all we can really do is keep fighting to get law makers who support rights into office.

I wonder what a stray bullet would do to the skin of a pressurized jet at 35,000?
Would it blow a big hole a suck out passengers?
Or not?

There are four things that might happen if a person were to fire a gun on an airplane:

1. 
   
   
   • The bullet simply goes through the aluminum skin of the plane and punches a small hole as it exits.
   • The bullet hits a window and blows it out.
   • The bullet hits wiring hidden in the walls or the floor.
   • The bullet hits a fuel tank.

If the bullet simply punctures the skin of an airplane, then it's no big deal. The cabin of the airplane is pressurized, and the hole creates a small leak, but the pressurization system will compensate for it. A single hole, or even a few holes like this, will have no effect.
If the bullet blows out a window, that's a problem. A big one. When the window blows, the plane will depressurize over the course of several seconds. Since all of the air in the cockpit is rushing toward the missing window, a lot of debris will be heading in that direction with it. If the person sitting next to the window isn't strapped in, then it's possible that he or she will get pushed out -- another good reason to wear your safety belt at all times!In the meantime, the loss of cabin pressurization creates a problem for everyone on the plane. A commercial airliner flying at 30,000 feet (9,144 meters) is flying slightly higher than the peak of Mount Everest. The air at this altitude is so thin that a person will become incoherent in a matter of a minute or so without supplemental oxygen. That's why the oxygen masks will drop from the panel in the ceiling. If you're in this situation, putting the mask on quickly, while you're still thinking clearly, is important.
If the bullet hits wiring (or worse, if the bullet hits something important like the instrument panel in the cockpit), it could cause problems that range from trivial (in-flight entertainment stops working) to severe. The damage depends on what gets hit and how important it is.Finally, there's the problem of the fuel tanks. Commercial jets store a lot of their fuel in the wings, but there are also tanks in the fuselage (or body of the aircraft) on many planes. For example, a 747 stores thousands of gallons of fuel in the fuselage. If a bullet were to puncture a tank, it would at least cause a leak and would have some potential to cause an explosion.
From this discussion, you can see that, in general, it's not a good idea to be shooting guns on airplanes! But if you have to do it, try not to hit anything important.

ozarkhillbilly said:

I put boats and trains in a different category than planes. A negligent discharge on a train or boat will not necessarily cause the destruction of said vehicle, but a pressurized plane I would not want to risk it. That said I am great with checking a gun on your flight and getting as soon as you land.

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I agree. There is a much higher probability of a catastrophic outcome on an airplane. Also, airline security makes it highly unlikely that anyone else on your flight will be armed. Planes are like courthouses in that regard.

And yes, a big +1 on checking weapons at boarding. I actually was able to something similar on a flight from Finland to the US in the '90s. I had a bag of knives of all sizes -- pukko, for you fans of Finnish metalware -- that I was bringing back as gifts for relatives and friends. I asked about it at check-in, and they told me to just give it to the flight attendant on boarding and pick it up at the end of the flight. Easy as pie. Of course that was pre-9/11.

If your on a ship of any great size like a freighter, tanker, container or passenger ship.
Youd have to know the best place to shoot a ship to get any type affect, the bilge pumps would most likely handle any holes in the boat hull.

Things as they are may be the answer; very complex question when all of the variables are considered. My gut tells me that my chances of getting shot up on any given day are pretty low; my chances of getting killed in a T/A by my fellow drunken citizen is much greater, my chances of dying from something is guaranteed - I don’t worry about death very much. I only use flying per this thread title - I have a very small worry about crashing, getting shot in a plane is not on any list of worries - I don’t feel that I need a gun when flying. My CC class instructor talked about always taking a handgun into the shower with him - paranoid or is our society that dangerous - I vote paranoid. The math around me says that I do not need a gun most of the time to survive; chances are very good that I will never need a gun to survive. I voted “no” because my chances of survival without a sidearm are extremely in my favor. Now if the math shifts, then I will vote “yes”.
If you survey the deer in my area come Nov.14, they will most definitely vote “yes” for their need to carry a gun - their math will have shifted dramatically - there is an analogy in there somewhere if you think about it.