RVers state of residence

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CapnMac said:
The hard part is that the 4473 does ask for some evidence of one's intention to reside in a place.
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No, it doesn't. The Form 4473 requires the buyers current residence address, not where they intend to reside.



As to an FTF, what form of ID would a person want to know they are not making a felonious sale?
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No form of ID proves that a sale is not felonious.


Something state-issued, perhaps? To get State issued ID typically mean having resided in a give State for a length of time prescribed by that State.

And, that's where the wires all wind up crossed up.
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Nothing gets "the wires all wind up crossed up."..........if the transferor is a licensee, the Form 4473 details exactly what is/is not acceptable ID or alternate documentation.
If the seller is a nonlicensee, there is no ID or documentation requirement, but it remains a felony if the buyer is not a resident of the same state.


Given that an RVer is going to need a State issued driver's license, and insurance, and some form of vehicle registration, this all suggest joining one of the various "clubs." Which will, naturally limit one's ability to purchase firearms to that one state, as that's the one where one is 'documented.'
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Wrong! Simply having a drivers license from a particular state does not make you a resident of that state for the purposes of acquiring firearms. "An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State..." If I have a Texas drivers license and only visit Texas for a week every year.....I'm not a resident of Texas for the purposes of acquiring firearms.



Those who live on the water are in similar straights.
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Not necessarily. "Dock 3, Slip 15" might certainly be a residence address. Some houseboats never leave the dock.
 
lemaymiami said:
...... I became a legal resident of the state in just a day or two - by affidavit, which was encouraged by the school I was enrolling in under the GI bill... Who knew I'd never leave?

I wonder if something similar isn't available to a nomad....
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It is not. Again, what a STATE requires for "residency" purposes (voting, paying taxes, etc) IS NOT in any way the same as what ATF and Federal law require for acquiring firearms.
ATF Ruling 2010-6 State of Residence is simple, beautiful and more liberal than anything a state may require.......you just have to live there with the intent to make it your home. Heck, you can have more than one state of residence for the purposes of acquiring firearms....just provide the required documentation. Family home in Plano, TX? But go to college at OU in Stillwater, OK? While living in OK, that college kid (for the purposes of acquiring firearms) is a resident of OK. He'll just need a government issued document showing his name and residence address in OK.



I wonder how many of them have an agent (or an attorney) assisting in all the paperwork and other trappings of modern life while they're on the road... That then raises the question - could your FFL act as your agent for receiving a firearm -then ship it to the closest FFL wherever you happen to be at the time...
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Huh?o_O Federal law is federal law. All licensees follow the same federal law. Shipping a gun to an FFL in another state doesn't change the residency requirement or the ID requirement. The buyer is going to have to show his current residence address on the Form 4473 and provide a gov issued photo ID. If that ID doesn't show the current resdence address then the buyer needs to provide alternate gov issued documents with his name and his current address.
 
dogtown tom said:
If you are a "full time RV'er........you don't actually have an intention of making a home in any state. That's kinda the point of being a fulltime RV'er.;)
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You know this how? I've delivered firewood to several full time RV'ers who live at the same campground for 6 months out of the year. I see no reason why that couldn't be considered "intention to make a home".
dogtown tom said:
Again, no one has written that there is such a requirement.
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Good. :thumbup:
 
Buy the firearm and do the CCP stuff BEFORE becoming a nomad. That’s really the best way to do it.

Buy gun THEN nomad. Everything in life needs planning.
 
bearcreek said:
You know this how? I've delivered firewood to several full time RV'ers who live at the same campground for 6 months out of the year. I see no reason why that couldn't be considered "intention to make a home".
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Again for the inth time, read the ATF Ruling. There are ways to show that "intention to make a home" .
 
Just to be clear, nothing in this response applies to state laws. This is only about federal law.

If you can't provide the proper documentation of residence (as spelled out in the 4473 instructions) then the FFL holder can not legally sell a firearm to you. Period.

If you are not a resident of a state, then it is a felony to purchase a firearm from a non-licensee resident of that state. Period.

The only question is: "What would federal law consider to be adequate proof of residence in a state for the purposes of determining if a private transaction is legal?". As has been stated more than once, it is not clear what the answer to that question is. It's reasonable to believe that if one has the ability to provide proper documentation to satisfy 4473 requirements*** that they would certainly be considered a resident for the purpose of a private transaction. It's pretty much impossible to go further than that unless someone knows of a case, or cases that might shed light on the issue.

***Note that having the ability to provide proper documentation to satisfy 4473 requirements does not in any way imply that it is necessary to provide that documentation for a private sale. In fact, no documentation of residence is required to be shown for a private sale. That doesn't mean you don't have to be a resident, it just means that the seller is not obligated to verify your residence and you are not obligated to prove it. The fact that no documentation of residence is required to be shown does not mean that there is no requirement to be a resident.

My take:

1. If you know you can't prove you are a state resident per the 4473 requirements, you're skating on thin ice if you assume you are a state resident for the purposes of a private transaction.
2. If you know you aren't residing in any state then trying to pretend you are, or trying to come up with some contorted explanation of how you really are doing something that it's obvious you aren't is extremely unlikely to be an effective tactic in federal court if it ever becomes an issue.
 
dogtown tom said:
Again for the inth time, read the ATF Ruling. There are ways to show that "intention to make a home" .
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I'm fully aware of that. You're the one that said that the point of full time RVing is that they have no intention of making a home in any state. Were you joking when you said that?
 
JohnKSa said:
1. If you know you can't prove you are a state resident per the 4473 requirements, you're skating on thin ice if you assume you are a state resident for the purposes of a private transaction.
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Why? The law very clearly says that an ID or other proof of residency is required only when buying from a dealer, not from an individual.
 
bearcreek said:
The law very clearly says that an ID or other proof of residency is required only when buying from a dealer, not from an individual
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Proof of residence would be required to prevent, or to defend against ,charges of an interstate private sale.
 
bearcreek said:
I'm fully aware of that. You're the one that said that the point of full time RVing is that they have no intention of making a home in any state. Were you joking when you said that?
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Good grief man......."full time RV'ing" means what it means. If you park your butt long enough to have mail from a government entity, city utility bills, etc delivered there with your name on them..........are you really "full time RV'ing"?o_O No you ain't.;) In common parlance "full time RV'ing" implies that you DO NOT stay in one location long enough to consider it your home vs. "part time RV'ing" which plenty of people with homes do. They only RV a few weeks or months out of the year.
 
bearcreek said:
Why? The law very clearly says that an ID or other proof of residency is required only when buying from a dealer, not from an individual.
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True, ID is only required when buying from a licensed dealer.....but that's not the point.
The point is whether you would be considered a resident of that state when buying from another nonlicensee. The same requirements to show your intent to make a home must be met except for providing the seller with ID.

That government issued photo ID or government issued documentation with your name and current residence address show your intent to make a home in that state.
 
If you don't live in any state, then you shouldn't have to buy license plates in any state! :)
I'm sure that won't fly so your license plate on your RV shows what state you live in!
That oughta' be proof enough.
 
bearcreek said:
I'm fully aware of that. You're the one that said that the point of full time RVing is that they have no intention of making a home in any state. Were you joking when you said that?
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Well, a full time RVer has to have a driver's license and some form of address for registration and insurance. Would that not be the default "residence" for this discussion?
 
H&R Glock said:
If you don't live in any state, then you shouldn't have to buy license plates in any state! :)
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Irrelevant in regards to acquiring firearms.


I'm sure that won't fly so your license plate on your RV shows what state you live in!
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No, it doesn't. it shows where the vehicle is registered.



That oughta' be proof enough.
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Proof of what?o_O
Where your car/truck/motorcycle/RV is registered or has license plates from is irrelevant to someones state of residence.
 
dogtown tom said:
Good grief man......."full time RV'ing" means what it means. If you park your butt long enough to have mail from a government entity, city utility bills, etc delivered there with your name on them..........are you really "full time RV'ing"?o_O No you ain't.;) In common parlance "full time RV'ing" implies that you DO NOT stay in one location long enough to consider it your home vs. "part time RV'ing" which plenty of people with homes do. They only RV a few weeks or months out of the year.
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Ok. Guess I'm not up on "common parlance" as it relates to RV'ing. I assumed someone who lived in an RV full time was a full time RV'er. How long can someone who lives in an RV full time have their RV parked in one spot before they're no longer considered a full time RV'er, in common parlance?
 
dogtown tom said:
True, ID is only required when buying from a licensed dealer.....but that's not the point.
The point is whether you would be considered a resident of that state when buying from another nonlicensee. The same requirements to show your intent to make a home must be met except for providing the seller with ID.

That government issued photo ID or government issued documentation with your name and current residence address show your intent to make a home in that state.
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In your opinion, is it possible for a "full time RV'er" to legally buy a firearm? If so, how would they go about doing that?
 
George P said:
Well, a full time RVer has to have a driver's license and some form of address for registration and insurance. Would that not be the default "residence" for this discussion?
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No. The residence requirements to get a driver's license have nothing to do with the residence requirements to buy a firearm.
 
I understand that, but how then does a full time RVer go about buying a gun if they are "homeless by design"?
 
George P said:
I understand that, but how then does a full time RVer go about buying a gun if they are "homeless by design"?
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That is the question being hashed to death in this thread. I would suggest that a full time RV'er can be in a state with the intention to make a home there, which makes them legally able to buy firearms in that state. If it so happens that they don't have an ID from that state, they're not going to be able to buy from an FFL dealer, which leaves them with private sale as the only legal option.
 
bearcreek said:
Ok. Guess I'm not up on "common parlance" as it relates to RV'ing. I assumed someone who lived in an RV full time was a full time RV'er. How long can someone who lives in an RV full time have their RV parked in one spot before they're no longer considered a full time RV'er, in common parlance?
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Who really cares? Not me. You should write a letter to ATF.:rofl:
 
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