On your Barnes, as they generally like a good jump, I wouldn't go much longer. In several of my rifles that use the monos, they wind up seated somewhere in the top groove, some so that the top of neck is even with top of groove, others so that top of neck is closer to bottom of groove. But then that's just my experience. Another load to consider would be a 110 ttsx at 3500+ hodgdon has some fun data..... The extra length and weight should yield a good bit of damage, and we're still in the death laser range, keeping in mind that all of these bullets were designed for spc velocities, the higher we go, the riskier it will be, just a thought. I'd throw in a 120 sst scorcher but I'm afraid and 40 yds....... The shallow crater may be too grisly.
4000fps Doe Death Ray
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Varminterror
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The “advantage” of the Barnes mono metals for a game like this is the fact they are literally designed to “fail,” by any standard used for other bullets. Even the bullets designed for .270win or WSM velocities are going to “shed their petals” on impact at these high speeds, so the fact these bullets are designed for the 6.8SPC is largely moot - they’ll still shed their petals, and the shank will punch its way out. Not everyone is comfortable with this manner of killing, but it’s clear the OP, in fact, is so.
I do agree with giving them a long jump. Years ago I had all but sworn off monometal Barnes bullets until a colleague pointed out the fact they need “a lot of jump.” I started tinkering again, and for every cartridge I have tried them, I’m never closer than 50thou.
I do agree with giving them a long jump. Years ago I had all but sworn off monometal Barnes bullets until a colleague pointed out the fact they need “a lot of jump.” I started tinkering again, and for every cartridge I have tried them, I’m never closer than 50thou.
GooseGestapo
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The correct answer to the original question was a .257WbyMag.
However, I did enjoy the write up on the .270wssm.
Seems Uncle Sam is agreeing with you.
The proposed replacement for the M249 is going to deliver .270wssm performance.
However, I did enjoy the write up on the .270wssm.
Seems Uncle Sam is agreeing with you.
The proposed replacement for the M249 is going to deliver .270wssm performance.
I have a custom fast-twist .22-250. I'm going for something similar, though high 2000s/low 3000s is fast enough for me, with a heavy-for-caliber bullet. Haven't had a chance to use it on a deer yet. My goal was to be able to use all the improved .224 projectiles developed in the last 25 years, but at higher velocities than 5.56x45mm.
(The sole shot is after an adjustment- the other 3 are a group.)
(The sole shot is after an adjustment- the other 3 are a group.)
Went and checked cameras and found a 120lb boar that was hitting a feeder every evening at dark. 75 yard shot. Entrance was right in the thick part of the shoulder shield.
Impact with the humerus and violent destruction of the shoulder. Cant see it in the pic due to the connective tissue but hole through the front side ribs was about 5" across. Didn't open the cavity to see but much smaller exit through the far side ribs.
Not much damage to the far side shoulder. Small exit hole through the far side shoulder plate with one petal stuck in it.
One of the more nasty impacts Ive ever seen. More violent than any ballistic tip but with better penetration. Hope to find a bigger boar to try the same shot on.
Impact with the humerus and violent destruction of the shoulder. Cant see it in the pic due to the connective tissue but hole through the front side ribs was about 5" across. Didn't open the cavity to see but much smaller exit through the far side ribs.
Not much damage to the far side shoulder. Small exit hole through the far side shoulder plate with one petal stuck in it.
One of the more nasty impacts Ive ever seen. More violent than any ballistic tip but with better penetration. Hope to find a bigger boar to try the same shot on.
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Riomouse911
Member
A question, Does the high velocity impact that you described on the hog cause a lot of bloodshot meat? All the deer my family shot over the decades were killed with .30-30, 257 Roberts and .250 Savages... all somewhat sedate loads that didn’t always hit at the high velocities you’re talking about.
Just wonderin’...
Stay safe.
Just wonderin’...
Stay safe.
Finally got back around to loading the 90 grn gold dots. Max load is 73.9 grains of the ramshot hunter. I went with 72.5.
Velocity ran around 3900-3950 fps. 3 shot group at 100 yards came in under an inch. Good enough for me!
Knowing the bullet wouldn't exactly penetrate deep, I decided to kill some milk jugs at 50 yards. VIOLENT! The force of the water expanding outwards literally uprooted the grass in front of and to the sides of the front two jugs. Remainder of bullet was in front of the third jug.
Bullet was designed for the 6.8spc. Impressive that there was anything left to weigh.
Think im going to bump up half a grain to try to get back over 4000 just out of princIple. No doubt anything that gets hit in the lungs with that bullet isn't going anywhere. The question is whether or not the bullet can make it through the shoulder of a mature buck if a shot ends up a little forward. Time for more the pork testing.
Velocity ran around 3900-3950 fps. 3 shot group at 100 yards came in under an inch. Good enough for me!
Knowing the bullet wouldn't exactly penetrate deep, I decided to kill some milk jugs at 50 yards. VIOLENT! The force of the water expanding outwards literally uprooted the grass in front of and to the sides of the front two jugs. Remainder of bullet was in front of the third jug.
Bullet was designed for the 6.8spc. Impressive that there was anything left to weigh.
Think im going to bump up half a grain to try to get back over 4000 just out of princIple. No doubt anything that gets hit in the lungs with that bullet isn't going anywhere. The question is whether or not the bullet can make it through the shoulder of a mature buck if a shot ends up a little forward. Time for more the pork testing.
Yes, if you get in to the shoulder. Honestly though if that happens you're talking about maybe a couple pounds of hamburger or sausage meat. Losing one deer would be more of a loss than years worth of blood shot shoulders.
troy fairweather
Member
That held up good considering the speed.
OP: Nice work and thanks for the write up. This is fun to think about, although I don't think I'd do it. My hunting rifle is .300WM. Barnes load data shows 3,800-3,900 fps with the 110gr TTSX (G1 .295) and 3,500-3,600 fps with the 130gr TTSX (G1 .350). Those aren't terrible BCs. The 150 gr. Sierra Gameking has a G1 of .380. Maybe I'll play around with this if I'm ever ready to replace my barrel.
Info from another site-
" I cull deer every year for ranches out west. For years, I kept a log of the bullet and load that I used and the resulting impact/did they run off. The big deal about culling in volume is not having to track. I like every deer to not take a step. About 10 years ago I stumbled upon the 110 grain TTSX in .308 caliber for my '06. Tried several powder combinations and settled on 52.0 grains of RL10X. Runs out my 24" Pacnor barrel at a little over 3500 fps. It is a killer. I have shot hundreds of deer with this load. They never take a step and I have never captured a bullet, no matter the angle. It just works."
I loaded a 165 gr TSX for my .300WM. Best accuracy of any load I've developed for the rifle. Repeatable 3/4"-1" groups at 100 yards. I took 10 deer in four seasons with that load before I switched bullets. I just don't think the bullets were opening up. The deer ran like they were struck by lightening and they made it far before dropping. Exit wounds were so small I couldn't see them without real effort (e.g., finding a broken rib at the exit).
This info is very interesting. Maybe I should have dropped down even more in weight. I just ran the numbers with Hornady's online calculator. Comparing the 110 gr TTSX to the 165 gr TTSX at 500 yards, the 110 would be 16 fps faster, 6" less drop, but 5" more drift (10mph, 90 degree angle). Since I live back east and have never taken a shot at a deer longer than 200 yards, I don't really have to worry much about wind drift. At 200 yards, the 110 would still be traveling 3150fps, 345fps faster than the 165 and nearly as fast as the 165 at the muzzle. Also, recoil should be slightly lower (less force, but sharper). Interesting!
Captcurt
Member
I played with a 257 Weatherby one season. A 110gr Accubond at 3400+ fps dropped 2 whitetails in their tracks. They didn't even kick. I recovered one bullet. It took a big doe in the shoulder that was quartering to me. The bullet cut the the shoulder blade in two, took out 4 or 5 ribs leaving a gash 1 1/2"X6" in the ribcage. Then it went all of the way through the paunch and stopped at the pelvis. The bullet weighed 68gr. That is why I shoot Accubonds.
Rubone
Member
"Light bullets at 3600-4,000fps are a short to midrange play. Not good for long range hunting. Great for causing incredible trauma at short range, not suitable for long ranges"
I used a 270WSM on an Antelope hunt this year and the amount of damage to the animal was incredible. I'll never use it again for that type of hunt.
I used a 270WSM on an Antelope hunt this year and the amount of damage to the animal was incredible. I'll never use it again for that type of hunt.
Riomouse911
Member
That’s what I was wondering... I’d hate to put in all the time, money and effort for a successful hunt and end up with a deer that has a lot of the edible meat shredded.
Those .270 magnums really do move bullets fast, I can just about visualize the damage the WSM did to the antelope... I bet the innards looked like soup.
Stay safe.
Olon
Member
But the neck meat is so good 
Seriously though, thanks for sharing. Really cool project and nicely executed. Great write up too!
Seriously though, thanks for sharing. Really cool project and nicely executed. Great write up too!
I'd be curious about the bullet used?
Varminterror
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At short range, before the “wiffle ball effect” tips the rug out from under them, bullet construction doesn’t matter much for the 3600-4000fps range. Bullets on the market simply aren’t designed to run into something at those speeds, so they all tear apart. We see the evidence here - almost 80 grains of powder were used, but the bullet only penetrates two milk jugs.
Dead is dead, but the “hyper speed fad” of the 1990’s has been revoked due to these experiences. Super fast, underweight bullets blow apart like crazy, and shed speed like crazy in flight too. Stick it through the ribs and let it blow up in the lungs, the animal will die quickly and the meat loss will be minimal, but the penetration will be relatively poor, and long range trajectory... forget about it...
JimKirk
Member
I have seen what a 100 grain TTSX does at 3800 fps out of a 300 WSM ....
I shooting a 80 grain TTSX .257" out of a 22" barrel . 25/06 at 3680 fps ... hope to find out soon how they do on deer ...
I shooting a 80 grain TTSX .257" out of a 22" barrel . 25/06 at 3680 fps ... hope to find out soon how they do on deer ...
In the post referenced, I was curious if @Rubone was playing the light fast game that we've been discussing or if this was from a different type of loading, in my .270wsm the 130 poly tips at 31(+/-) are brutal and violent under 100 yds, but a 150 tsx or 160 partition don't appear to be nearly as bad, even the federal terminal ascent line has held up better than I'm picturing this picture to be thus my query, my stw with 139s is plenty evidence of destructomeat, as well as my buddy's .270 with browning bxr 134s (which are again much more explosive than say Hornady american 130) thus I was curious what was used that an entire cartridge should be shunned for a certain species. Personally we've run or seen everything from .223 to 300wm and/or 7stw on pronghorn and consistently, as you state, the construction/speed/distance play a great role. In two sentences all that I gathered was that the load used in that .270wsm on pronghorn was quite destructive. The statement that the .270wsm would never be used for such a hunt again piqued my curiosity.
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Some last minute pork testing this evening before laying low for next weekends archery opener. Brought the 10-22/ Gemtech Mist for coon duty.
Two coons down but giving the opossum a free pass in the lights.
Main target. A little smaller than would like at about 80lbs but clean pass through the thick of both shoulders with the 90 grain Speer.
Nice exit wound about 3/4".
Bullet exited with enough energy to blow blood spatter about 6ft. I feel confident that a lack of penetration doesnt look to be a concern.
Two coons down but giving the opossum a free pass in the lights.
Main target. A little smaller than would like at about 80lbs but clean pass through the thick of both shoulders with the 90 grain Speer.
Nice exit wound about 3/4".
Bullet exited with enough energy to blow blood spatter about 6ft. I feel confident that a lack of penetration doesnt look to be a concern.
troy fairweather
Member
Less damage them I thought, but if shot long ways I bet it would be different.
Didn't open him up but guessing the damage through the ribs was much different.
I'm going to do a side bar here as no one has said anything about it. Why are you using a suppressor and not just a muzzle brake or similar?
I don't see the need to have one and it will affect your accuracy. Also at the speeds the bullets are leaving your barrel, again, don't see the need/expense that's added.
jmorris mentioned the accelerators, most don't work and if they're ones you do yourself, they're usually just junk.
I have some 50 BMG SLAP ammo, these far exceed anything made. The reason they're so good? The military has an unlimited amount of time and money.
I don't see the need to have one and it will affect your accuracy. Also at the speeds the bullets are leaving your barrel, again, don't see the need/expense that's added.
jmorris mentioned the accelerators, most don't work and if they're ones you do yourself, they're usually just junk.
I have some 50 BMG SLAP ammo, these far exceed anything made. The reason they're so good? The military has an unlimited amount of time and money.
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