HP vs RN bullets?

Speer doesn't do that. Generally all (Speer) projectiles of the same weight for a given cartridge share the same load data table, and that's the way Speer has published their load data for decades. A notable exception was their Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid data in the Speer Reloading Manual #14 but that wasn't a HP vs RN difference issue.

https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

https://www.speer.com/reloading/rifle-data.html

Speer does have separate load data for some cartridges with a short barrel such as 357 Magnum but that's not a HP vs RN issue.

The Speer lead bullets are swaged lead, which are very soft. They are not designed for high speed or they will lead the barrel very badly.

jski said:

Is that to promote expansion with a higher velocity?

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No. Most bullets, with the exception of soft lead bullets noted above, are loaded in manuals to near maximum pressure levels whether RN, FP, HP.

Plus soft lead bullets develop more pressure than jacketed bullets with the same charge. You need to compare jacketed round nose and jacketed HP bullets.

jski said:

Not familiar with Speer’s offerings. What about Barry’s plated bullets? I know they have a speed limit attached to them but the velocity for 7.7 grains, 1050 FPS, isn’t anywhere near it.

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Your lack of understanding handloading is showing up here. Look at Speer's data for the 158 jacketed/plated bullets - found here:

https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...caliber_357-358_dia/357_Magnum_158_TMJ_FN.pdf

Some of this data is also in Alliant's manual. 7.7 grains of Unique is at the lower speeds. That's a max charge of Unique, producing maximum safe pressure. But other powders like 2400 (producing maximum safe pressure) will get up to 1265 fps. Time to go back to your loading manual and read about how different powders loaded to the same chamber pressure will produce different speeds.

OK that wasn't illustrated in the OP's initial post.

Speer plus Lyman separate jacketed vs non-jacketed bullets in their load data very clearly, and have also done that for decades. You can see that here ( includes Speer #12, Lyman 44th & 48th, plus Lee 2nd there).

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/

Speer includes a writeup on barrel leading potential vs muzzle velocity, Lyman & Lee probably do as well.

I'm more familiar with rifle rounds, but the principle is probably the same. For example a 30 caliber 180 gr RN bullet will be shorter overall than a 180 gr pointed bullet. BUT, the RN bullet has more surface area in contact with the barrel. If loaded with the same amount of powder the RN bullet will generate more pressure. You can also see similar differences between different brands due to slightly different bullet shapes used by different manufacturers.

But the difference is usually pretty small. Generally speaking you can use the same load data for equal bullet weights. You need to start low and work up. You may reach a max load with one bullet at a slightly lower powder charge.

Where it does become important is with vastly different bullets. Solid copper is a good example. Since copper is lighter than lead a copper bullet of the same weight is significantly longer than lead. That takes up room in the case and means much more surface area in contact with the barrel. Load data for copper bullets is very different even with the same bullet weight.

That's something different than jacketed vs unjacketed. Here's a photo from my Speer #14 for 180 grain 30-06Springfield. As I mentioned previously, you can see all these 180 grain jacketed bullets use the same data despite differences in bearing area and nose shape for a non- technical term.



Due to construction differences the Speer 308 180 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet has it's own load table with notes.



But specifically for 357 Magnum there are seperate load tables for handgun vs rifle use. For one thing thebarrel l length difference makes a muzzle velocity difference. But also within that, there's jacketed bullet vs non jacketed bullet seperate load data. Here's jacketed 158 grain data



And data for bullets that weigh 158 grains that don't have jackets



And load data for short barreled handguns seperate from other load data for the 357 135 grain Speer Gold Dot jacketed hollow point bullet which is designed to have a lower minimum velocity threshold for expansion. It even has SB in the bullet name but it's use isn't restricted to only short barreled firearms.



I hope this is helpful. I typically understand things better when there are photos or drawings or other visual aids in addition to text vs just text.

jski said:

Now that I’ve been properly chastised, let me ask this. Since Alliant’s website has no min and max recommendations and gives no associated pressures with the loads, like say Hodgdon’s or Western Powders, how am I to interpret these load recommendations? Are they max loads? Mins? A good in-between load?

In addition, I’ve read and heard that Unique is not a powder that generates high pressures like H110 and is good for mild loads. How am I to construe that?

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Alliant's listed load are max, and they recommend reducing by 10% for start/min. loads.

jski said:

Now that I’ve been properly chastised, let me ask this. Since Alliant’s website has no min and max recommendations and gives no associated pressures with the loads, like say Hodgdon’s or Western Powders, how am I to interpret these load recommendations? Are they max loads? Mins? A good in-between load?

In addition, I’ve read and heard that Unique is not a powder that generates high pressures like H110 and is good for mild loads. How am I to construe that?

Click to expand...

They all generate high pressures depending on how much you load.

Unique is a little dirty at lower pressures, but you don't say what cartridge/bullet.

jski said:

Now that I’ve been properly chastised, let me ask this. Since Alliant’s website has no min and max recommendations and gives no associated pressures with the loads, like say Hodgdon’s or Western Powders, how am I to interpret these load recommendations? Are they max loads? Mins? A good in-between load?

In addition, I’ve read and heard that Unique is not a powder that generates high pressures like H110 and is good for mild loads. How am I to construe that?

Click to expand...

This is the second to last line of text before the break on this page, in bold font. Alliant intends for this page to be read, understood, and by proceeding further, having some tacit level of agreement.

"REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD."

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/

It wouldn't be harmful to read and digest the text on that page, for anyone.

jski said:

Now that I’ve been properly chastised, let me ask this. Since Alliant’s website has no min and max recommendations and gives no associated pressures with the loads, like say Hodgdon’s or Western Powders, how am I to interpret these load recommendations? Are they max loads? Mins? A good in-between load?

In addition, I’ve read and heard that Unique is not a powder that generates high pressures like H110 and is good for mild loads. How am I to construe that?

Click to expand...

From Alliant's website:

http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE. (i.e. their data lists the maximum load.)

You might have read/heard that Unique does not produce high velocity like H110 (in some loads). There is a huge difference between velocity and pressure, and some people don't know the difference. Thus beware of your sources of information. Forums are not reliable sources. Always go to the manufacturers sources.

jski said:

Alright, it’s not apparent how this applies to my 2 specific bullets (Berry’s 158 gr FN and HP)? Am I to infer when using Unique, I’m limited to only those bullets listed on their website? Incredible!

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So, looking at Alliant load data for 357 Magnum 158 grain projectile (in this case a Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point which is a jacketed PD/SD projectile), 7 grains are shown as the maximum load.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=28

For starting load take 7.7 grains, multiply by 0.9, the result is 6.9 grains for the 158 grain Speer Gold Dot jacketed bullet, keeping two significant figures.

Now if we look at the Speer #14 data I posted, looking specifically at data for 158 grain non-jacketed bullets (in this case a LSWC & LSWC HP) and Unique powder, the published start load is 5.5 grains for 970 feet per second muzzle velocity from a 6" barrel and max load data is 6.0 grains Alliant Unique with 1034 fps muzzle velocity from a 6" barrel.

Going a few pages further Speer's data for 158 grain jacketed bullets (including the Gold Dot Hollow Point as well as two Uni-Cor bullets and one TMJ bullet) and Alliant Unique powder, the published start load is 6.9 grains with a published muzzle velocity of 978 fps from a 6" barrel and max load is 7.7 grains with a published muzzle velocity of 1040 fps.

So Alliant's published data for using Alliant Unique for the 158 grain .357 Gold Dot Hollow Point agrees with Speer's published data for not only the 158 grain .357 Gold Dot Hollow Point but three other 158 grain .357 jacketed bullets. Start load = 6.9 grains, max load 7.7 grains.

Speer's published load data using Alliant Unique for 158 grain .357 non-jacketed bullets is significantly different than for jacketed bullets with a start load of 5.5 grains and a max load of 6.0 grains accompanied by lower published muzzle velocities.

I believe if you look in the Speer Reloading Manual #12 you'll discover similar if not identical data as the Speer Reloading Manual #14.

ETA - The data on page 518 of Speer Reloading Manual #12 shows the same data for 158 grain .357 non-jacketed bullets WRT start load is 5.5 grains Alliant Unique and max load is 6.0 grains Alliant Unique.

The data on page 520 of Speer Reloading Manual #12 shows the same data for 158 grain .357 jacketed bullets WRT start load is 6.9 grains Alliant Unique and max load is 7.7 grains Alliant Unique.

Checking Speer's website for their currently published load data for 357 Magnum using 158 grain non-jacketed bullets still shows a start load of 5.5 grains Alliant Unique and a max load of 6.0 grains Alliant Unique.

https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...8_caliber_357-358_dia/357_Magnum_158_LSWC.pdf

Similarly for .357 158 grain jacketed bullets still shows a start load of 6.9 grains Alliant Unique and a max load of 7.7 grains Alliant Unique.

https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...caliber_357-358_dia/357_Magnum_158_TMJ_FN.pdf

The Speer Reloading Manual includes this in the text preface for the 357 Magnum cartridge load data on page 516.

"The 158 grain semiwadcutters, both in solid and hollow point form, make good practice and target loads. To avoid leading we recommend limiting velocities to around 1000 feet/sec."

So, I've done the best I can using the preface page on Alliant's website for their published reloading data, which admittedly can be bypassed by going to the specific Alliant powder product web page then using the link to go to all load ata for that product, such as Unique, and the Speer Reloading Manual data across seveal editions as well as the most current applicable published Speer load data on Speer's website. Note those Speer non-jacketed bullets have a coating that isn't visibly apparent, but nonetheless present.

"All Speer lead bullets now feature a hi-tech, multi-layer lube system. This great lube stays with the bullet instead of burning off. It won't melt off in storage or transport, and is clean and dry to the touch. The Lead Wadcutter design features a sharp round shoulder that delivers superb accuracy and precision paper cutting performance. Primary function is target shooting. This is not loaded ammunition."

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010796433

Where next, Lee's Modern Reloading Second Edition, available in digital form at the same web link I previously posted that includes a digital version of the Speer Reloading Manual #12, Lyman Reloading Manuals 44th & 48th editions, several Hornady handbooks, and additional reference materials that, while not necessarily the latest revisions, contain valuable information in both text and numerals?

Despite your methodology reflecting any reference materials beyond load tables themselves having zero personal value, I was happy to provide that train of rational departure from that specific paradigm. I had hopes you could look outside the frame you'd adopted.

I'd recommend reading and digesting material outside the load tables in the Speer Manual #12 and Lyman Manual #48 first as those have some good applicability for reloading handgun cartridges with cast bullets with minimal ad copy for their specific lines of products (the Lee manual is the other end of the spectrum causing me to wonder if somehow Richard Lee and William Shatner might be blood kin). Then post questions here as or after studying up a bit, with no financial cost to read, only personal choice with personal time.

I'm new to reloading as well FWIW.