Trail boss with no data

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brewer12345

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Once I receive my mold, I am planning to work up a trail boss based cast bullet load for 350 legend and there is no data. I have read the instructions on what to do: figure out how far the bullet will go in the case, fill powder up to that level, weigh it, and that is the max charge. Start at 70% of max. This all strikes me as a little loosey-goosey. What if I get it wrong guessing where the base of the bullet will end up in the case, for example? Anyone done this before? Easy as it sounds? Dangers to be aware of? I know trail boss does not like to be compressed at all, so will stay well away from that. My other alternative is to take a guess on where to start with something like Unique, and I would rather use the most forgiving powder I have available.

The goal is a subsonic (hopefully 1000 FPS) load based on a 180 grain plain based powder coated cast bullet. This is meant as a 50 yard target and small/medium game (rabbit to beaver) load that will be pleasant to shoot out of an american ranch rifle.
 
You will do fine. It is a very forgiving powder as long as you don't compress it so much that you crush and break powder grains. Though compressed loads are not recommended its such a fluffy powder a small amount of compression will not cause huge pressure spikes. Remember you can safely get a little bit more in the cases if you willing the vibrate/shake them a little to help the powder settle.

I tried it with my 450 Bushmaster and could not get enough Trailboss in the case to get a 405 gr bullet much over 900 fps.

But a quick look at Quickload shows that an approximately 70% case fill starting load is going to likely get you pretty close to 1000 fps from a 16-inch barrel with a 180 gr bullet (I don't have the exact dimension of your bullet so this only moderately accurate). Pressures are really low, should be very quiet in a suppressor but would definitely not cycle a gas gun. Should be a good load for your ranch rifle if it's accurate.
 
Thanks, MCB. I have some light cast loads for my 30-06, but it is a nuisance to sight in again with full house loads for elk season. My thought is that the 350 would be a dedicated subsonic cast rifle.
 
brewer12345 said:
Thanks, MCB. I have some light cast loads for my 30-06, but it is a nuisance to sight in again with full house loads for elk season. My thought is that the 350 would be a dedicated subsonic cast rifle.
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I think 350 Legend would make a great rifle for that. More energy than 300 BO but similar form factor.
 
mcb said:
I think 350 Legend would make a great rifle for that. More energy than 300 BO but similar form factor.
Click to expand...

Kind of my thought. Plus with a high pressure limit I should have a lot of margin of error to experiment. I figure if I find a really good subsonic load maybe I will finally go the suppressor route. In the meantime, it should be cheap to shoot.
 
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"Listed below we show a few examples of rifle loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn't stop there. If you don't see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:

1) Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!

2) Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.

3) Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!"

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uplo...96.316569628.1604153640-1436519039.1604153640
 
Use a set of calipers. Decide on the amount of powder you think is correct Use the depth measuring function of the calipers to measure from the case mouth down to the top of the powder. Then use the calipers on that setting to measure from the base of the bullet to the point on the bullet you are going to seat it to. Adjust load volume based on these measurements. Easy, peasy. I always do this check with Trail Boss even when there is data.
 
With a straight wall cartridge I simply measure the bullet length I intend to use then and subtract that length from the OAL I am going to load it too. I then cut a case off at that length and fill it with Trail-Boss level and that is my 100% load. Doing this lets me shake/vibrate the case a little and see how much I can safely get in settling the load.
 
Rule3 said:
Rabbits? 350 Legend?

Must be some killer Wabbits!:what:

View attachment 951817
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Some of the jacks look like that, for sure.

A slow moving lead bullet just pokes a caliber sized hole through the critter. Have shot rabbits with 38 special and it often does less damage than a 22. That is the idea with the legend. Otoh, should I ever need to, I can stoke it with full power leads and bring down a deer at 200 yards.
 
mcb said:
With a straight wall cartridge I simply measure the bullet length I intend to use then and subtract that length from the OAL I am going to load it too. I then cut a case off at that length and fill it with Trail-Boss level and that is my 100% load.
Click to expand...

That method works out well for 357 max, using 38 spl brass. A soldered on handle so you can dip it into the jug is also nice.

20201028_104430.jpg
 
brewer12345 said:
My thought is that the 350 would be a dedicated subsonic cast rifle.
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A 9mm, 38/357 could do that with data already in books, using numerous powders. If your running subs with fast powders you don't need a 1.710" case length.
 
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jmorris said:
A 9mm, 38/357 could do that with data already in books, using numerous powders. If your running subs with fast powders you don't need a 1.710" case length.
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But 350 legend has room to go much heavier than those pistol cartridges can go. I have seen guys going up to 280 gr bullet in 350 Legend subsonic.
 
mcb said:
But 350 legend has room to go much heavier than those pistol cartridges can go. I have seen guys going up to 280 gr bullet in 350 Legend subsonic.
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If that is the goal, the 450BM or 458 socom would be better picks. Most of my .458 bullets are 300gn and up.

Most of the 350's I have seen are 1:16 twists that are too slow for the over $2ea, 280gn projectiles. https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=350LEGEND280SUBREX

Speer #11 has two pages of 357 mag loads with 200gn bullets, that will fit in revolvers. Switch to a rifle where the OAL isn't limited by the barrel and you can gain case volume and run bullets with even more mass. Like the Saeco #352.
 
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jmorris said:
If that is the goal, the 450BM or 458 socom would be better picks. Most of my .458 bullets are 300gn and up.

Most of the 350's I have seen are 1:16 twists that are too slow for the over $2ea, 280gn projectiles. https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=350LEGEND280SUBREX

Speer #11 has two pages of 357 mag loads with 200gn bullets, that will fit in revolvers. Switch to a rifle where the OAL isn't limited by the barrel and you can gain case volume and run bullets with even more mass.
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350 Legend subsonic with a fast twist barrel will have significantly more energy than 300 BO subsonic without giving up magazine capacity. 450 BM and 458 SOCOM can certain bring the energy levels up while stay subsonic but both have limited capacity.

That Maker bullet requires a faster twist due to the all copper construction making it long for its weight. That Maker 350 Legend bullet is 1.48 inches long, a 280gr cast lead bullet would be substantially shorter (~1.20 inch assuming similar ogive) and will be stabile in a 1:16 twist barrel. A 1:10 twist barrel would probably let you approach a 350 gr lead bullet and still be stable.

350 Legend seems to fit an interesting if very limited niche between 300 BO and 450BM. Straight wall if you need it and good potential subsonic performance while still having good medium game capability over modest ranges.
 
Beyond the OP anyway, sorry typed more than I read, pretty specific on what he wants and wants to shoot.

brewer12345 said:
The goal is a subsonic (hopefully 1000 FPS) load based on a 180 grain plain based powder coated cast bullet. This is meant as a 50 yard target and small/medium game (rabbit to beaver) load that will be pleasant to shoot out of an american ranch rifle.
Click to expand...

With the rifle, picked out, https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/models.html They show the 300's holding twice (10) as many rounds as the 350 (5), if that makes any difference.

Not sure how much difference one would see between the two using cast and coated 180's at 50 yards on paper or either animal listed. Guess I would go 300 as the brass is cheaper or could easily be made from one of the most abundant rifle cases around and lots of load data. Lower powder costs and I could hook him up with some that don't like semiautos.
357max and 300blk.
20201028_163156.jpg

That said standard velocity .22 will often be subsonic and I have shot bugholes on paper with them and dispatched most of the rabbits in my life with one.
 

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No interest whatsoever in 450. I tend to be recoil sensitive and the 450 doesn't really do anything special for me in return for the recoil. 300BO is essentially not legal for big game in my state. Hence the 350L.

As for mag capacity, the american ranch takes AR magazines, so if someone theoretically made a drum mag for 350 you could use it. As it is, 5 and 10 rounders seem to be common.
 
I wouldn't pick 180gn subs on big game unless they were in a trap but don't consider rabbit or beaver "big", so I guess that depends on definition.

For your plinkers, just follow the info they give you. You are not going to find a ton of data for a 350 as it is new, less with trailboss. Its kind of a master of all trades powder, in that it does nothing great but is quite versatile. You can reduce from max, as they say 70% is a good place to start.

Going for subsonic from otherwise super sonic rounds is backwards from regular load development. Start super and go down or start high and work down, you don't want to have to beat bullets out of the barrel. Don't compress trailboss and at its max you'll be looking at 60% of the velocity a suitable powder would give you from the round.
 
brewer12345 said:
300BO is essentially not legal for big game in my state.
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That is unusual. Any idea why they are not legal? It's a centerfire rifle cartridge and a large enough bullet. Just as powerful as a 30-30. What state?
 
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