HELP with load decision, 44 MAGNUM

BE-86 or 2400.

Load them in 44 Special and get some good jacketed or hard cast bullets for the 44 Mag.

One of the faster powders, 231 would likely be my pick.

I have shot hundreds of thousands of their bullets. I would try and keep them under 1200 fps and not expect a lot out of them accuracy wise. Might as well use smaller charges of fast powders than larger amounts of slow powders, for the results I would expect to get with them.

8 gn of 231 would get you 875 rounds per pound vs 500 rounds per pound with 14 gn of 2400 both with similar velocity’s, closer to 1000 fps.

The faster powders will perform better imo due to the lack of a strong roll crimp used to help give a clean burn and complete ignition. From my research be-86 and power pistol are almost identical 86 just having flash suppressant. Cant comment intelligently on the rest as I haven used them. On occasion power pistol is fun because of the boom and flames depending on your mood.

Personally I think that bullet would be a good candidate for some Unique loads in the 8.5-10gr range, as that's what I use for 240 xtreme plated and for coated SWC's. But I think Power Pistol would work well in that charge range also.

Palladan44 said:

Heres what I have:

44 mag Winchester new brass - 100 pcs.
Win Large Pistol primers
Berry's plated 240gr target hollow points
No cannelure or crimp groove :-(
Max recommended velocity of 1,250 fps.
(Sounds fast to me, worried about jumping crimp)
(Only light taper crimp recommended with plated bullets)

Powder Selection:
WW296 (already tell ya i WONT be using this)
2400 (maybe, but leaning towards no)
Blue Dot (probably not)
Longshot (nah)
Power Pistol (now were gettin closer, maybe)
BE-86 (maybe)
Win-231 (would be just fine)

Guns are S&W model 29-2 nickel- 8-3/8"
And Dan Wesson 744 6"

Wont be going for full magnum power with these for obvious reasons (max vel 1250 and no crimp groove) , but i dont want Mouse Farts either...got plenty of .44 SPL loaded to tack drive. Been there done that.
Ok folks, out with it.
WWYD??

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Honestly, I don't think you've got any really good combinations there, primarily because of that bullet. I get good use out of plated bullets in my revolvers, but I've never been completely happy with the non-cannelured ones.

In your shoes I would load some up with 7.5 grains of 231 and the best taper crimp I could manage. I'd also bring a range rod in case the crimp isn't adequate...

<edit> If you are planning on sticking with non-cannelured bullets - and maybe even if you aren't - you might think about turning down your expander plug until the resulting cartridges show a distinct bulge where the bullet sits. This really helps with consistency in heavy handloads - especially when using powders like 296 - and also goes a long way towards ensuring that taper crimped bullets stay put.

I have been using a vintage can of 2400 for 44mag in my Super black hawk. I have noticed its likes maximum pressure loads. The 240grain Keith style bullets I have shot well in the 1400fps range. It is a bit dirty burning particularly when its in the lower charge range. If you do load some low powered test rounds check to see just how dirty it is when you shoot. You may not want to use 2400 for this application.

Palladan44 said:

max vel 1250 and no crimp groove)

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How old are these bullets? On Berry’s site they state these are good for a 1850fps speed limit, if you wanted to. Jumping crimp is something else, but the bullets can take the speed.

I have used quite a substantial crimp in 50AE, without cutting the plate. And I drive them pretty quickly @1450fps.
Are these plated differently?

Hope it goes well!

If you are not going full-power, use Unique.

They do say 1850 in the specifications tab.



I imagine that’s a mistake though as that’s higher than other information they have. With any plated bullet pay particular attention to the don’t over crimp warning, if you pull the bullet from a loaded round and it has a ring where it has been swaged down by the case, your results are going to be even worse than normal for plated bullets.

v8stang289 said:

Personally I think that bullet would be a good candidate for some Unique loads in the 8.5-10gr range, as that's what I use for 240 xtreme plated and for coated SWC's. But I think Power Pistol would work well in that charge range also.

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This is exactly what I found, 8.5g of Unique worked well with them. I tried Trail Boss, but I've noted that with TB loads, I need a heavier crimp. Light crimp Berry's + TB didn't give me solid accuracy. I crimped them harder and they worked better. The ones I have are berry's PN 97080, 240g flat point and they actually do have a crimp groove. Now, the 250g Berry's I have for 45 LC do not have a groove...which stinks.

In the end, I don't like those all the much.

I can only say what I would do if forced to use plated, non-grooved bullets in any of my 44 Magnums. I would use 44 Special data in 44 Magnum brass and taper crimp.

I would choose cast bullets over plated, but I understand newer reloaders can't find many components today. I googled "cast bullets" and out of the first 6 hits found these in stock. The two with question marks do not state if they are in stock or not...

Badman Bullets, .430" 240 gr. SWC
Acme Bullet Co., .430" 225 gr. RNFP
Meister Lead Cast Bullets, .430". 240 gr. SWC (in stock?)
Missouri Bullets, .430" 240 gr. SWC Hi-Tec (in stock ?)
Rim Rock Bullets, .430", 240 gr. SWCHP GC

Didn't look for PCed or Hi-Tek bulets which are also IMO, a better choice than plated.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...i57j69i60l3.8995j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Personally I would try Trail Boss near max load under those bullets.

Bill M. said:

Personally I would try Trail Boss near max load under those bullets.

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never loaded for 44 but in 45 colt trail boss at max or near works great for me with a decent crimp

I figured the OP was wanting to use something he already had vs something he might be able to get next year.

Heres what I have:

Powder Selection:
WW296 (already tell ya i WONT be using this)
2400 (maybe, but leaning towards no)
Blue Dot (probably not)
Longshot (nah)
Power Pistol (now were gettin closer, maybe)
BE-86 (maybe)
Win-231 (would be just fine)

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Yeah, I guess I did not really read the question. Sounds like he know enough to pick if he is going to use from that list. I do not actually have that many powders in my closet.

Palladan44 said:

WWYD??

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I would start with books for the fundamentals. Your lines of questioning over recent weeks leads me to believe you'd be well-served to spend time perusing load manual/books, giving you more autonomy and confidence. Also see 'Brian Pearce 44 Special+P Pet Loads' for mild and hot data specific to this thread.

You're asking for trouble loading that taper crimped bullet to anything near 1250. Try it and and measure COL growth of rnd #6 as you shoot 1-3. There is zero mechanical crimp happening with a taper crimp. Neck tension only. Check the dimension of the expander ball to ensure max tension - should be at least .004" under bullet diameter. For reference, plenty of loaders apply a roll crimp to their cannelured/grooved bullets in 44 Special loads, hot or otherwise.

There are no standardized velocity ranges associated with cartridges and often significant velocity overlap among a Special, Special +P and Magnum rnds (e.g. 38 Sp, 38 Sp +P/357 M) according to various powder and bullet mnfrs. (While many shooters refer to warm 44 Sp loads as '+P', SAAMI does not recognize '44 Sp +P'.) One mnfr's high-end Special is another's low-end Magnum. Given your no-cannelure/no crimp groove, plated bullet, I'd recommend a mid-range 44 Special load with W231. Be safe!

Contrarily, I find his posts often caveated with the obligatory “within published manuals”, and don’t find them to be out of his league.
I, too, would have the opinion of many experienced shooters, than just one book writer.

I’ve been locked up as much as anyone else, thanks to our Gretchen Hitler, and have enjoyed the conversations.

Now I’ll ask a novice 44 question, having skipped it for 50 entirely, and being a lover of bottom-feeding brass chuckers...

Could the bullets and load be seated at “Special” length and have a roll crimp applied in front of the ogive?
I am unsure of the lengths, personally. And the bullet bearing length would be needed.
A 44Magnum hollow point wad cutter.

Win-231 7.5 to 8.0 grains
Power Pistol 9.0 Grains (lot of flash at dusk)

I've had VG success with Blue dot right between mid range,Unique loads and 2400,full power loads. Can be a narrow window but,is useful. Just remember,it's not intended to be a replacement for these two other great powders,as it isn't nearly as versatile..... but for "light" magnum loads it can really shine.

Lee makes a collet FCD in .44 Mag...just sayin'.

AA7 would be my go to but since it’s not listed I would say 2400