Cease Fire =>> STOP!

From the times I've heard it at my range is they say cease fire to stop firing at the line, they yell Stop at individuals. When I hear either I put my gun on the counter barrel pointing out towards the range and look to see what's up.

RetiredUSNChief said:

Nope. Wouldn't advise it.

Range operations are based on rules which people are trained to. When people hear a command they don't expect, you'll get unexpected reactions.

Granted MOST people would "stop" what they're doing, but you'll likely get several responses dictated more by human nature than what they're trained to do. For example, you may see more people looking over their shoulders trying to see what caused the unexpected command instead of placing their weapons in a safe condition and putting them down.

Never give unexpected range commands of at all possible. If you change things, train on it first.

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Actually that statement was made in jest/facetiously/tongue-in-cheek whatever as I would expect the exact reactions that you describe. Though it would be interesting to see the reactions of some of the regulars that are there weekly. I'm sure I would never hear the end of it.

We have enough situations that could potentially but someone in danger and I find no need to add another! If you want to yell STOP! then you go right ahead. I will continue with what I've been taught to do as so far it has been working for decades.

At our local matches before the start, there is a run through of rules. One is that if things go bad, the SO will yell: STOP. The shooter is to freeze in his or her tracks, make sure the muzzle is down range and don't move until given instructions by the SO.

Cease fire on the rifle ranges where Uncle Ed is firing his 5 30.06s for deer season practice. Of course, some don't. One old dude kept shooting as he was 'safe' - since he fought on San Juan Hill. His son was cautioned. Dad did it again and they had to wrestle the gun away from him and shove him in the truck.

Our club teaches and uses "STOP!" as an RO command. Shooter is to stop in his/her tracks, keep muzzle pointed in a safe direction, stop shooting, and await further instructions. IMO it's a better command for shooters running around in a dynamic match.

A group that I work as a trainer and RSO with uses both "cease fire" and "STOP" as two separate commands.

We use "cease fire" to mean just that, stop firing your weapons. We use the command "STOP" in the event on eminent danger or unsafe condition and it means to stop absolutely everything; no firing, no moving, no looking around, just immediately stop whatever it is you're doing.

Though our situation is different from just using it as a standard range command since we are only dealing with experienced shooters on those ranges and the students are explicitly told what is expected at the safety briefing.

I've only heard it used on two occasions (trip and fall while practicing movement under fire and when a student was about to step on a copperhead) and in both instances it worked exactly as it was supposed to.

GEM said:

At our local matches before the start, there is a run through of rules. One is that if things go bad, the SO will yell: STOP. The shooter is to freeze in his or her tracks, make sure the muzzle is down range and don't move until given instructions by the SO.

Cease fire on the rifle ranges where Uncle Ed is firing his 5 30.06s for deer season practice. Of course, some don't. One old dude kept shooting as he was 'safe' - since he fought on San Juan Hill. His son was cautioned. Dad did it again and they had to wrestle the gun away from him and shove him in the truck.

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My Grandfather was a volunteer in a NY Regiment and was wounded during the Spanish American War. I was too young back then to ask if he was at San Juan Hill or not. I remember his old rifle hanging over his work bench - probably for many years and sure wish he had not parted with his 30-40 Krag. I think he liked fishing more than hunting and parted with it in the early '50s. I never did get to shoot with him but I doubt he would have been as you described. I certainly wouldn't call an elderly combat vet "old dude" out of respect. I remember at his funeral in the early '60s and then afterwards, Dad telling me that those 80 year old vets would always come to a funeral of a fellow vet and that many times they would loose one when he might trip and injure himself falling down a subway staircase. They were proud of their service and honored each other till the end.

Why make anything more complex than needs be? Sounds like a good idea to me.

Playing the devils advocate. As a rather severely handicapped person, deaf, even with hearing aids on , and with the added sound reducing ear muffs on, spoken range commands fall on deaf ears. Amplified voices help but whats needed is a very loud non spoken command. At the public range in Florida it’s a loud buzzer. On my private northern club it’s a shrill buzzer, fire alarm type, and numerous strobe lights. Once that sounds ceases I doubt if cease fire or stop really matters much.

I would shoot at that place precisely once, unless warned of that-then it would be zero.

Sorry everyone but by the nature of the game it is up to the range officer and every shooter on the line to be cognizant of the conditions around them. The range Safety Officer is there to do just that. Keep Everyone Safe whether you agree with their presence or not. They are to keep your safe form all unsafe practices and also to keep everyone else safe from you!

If you are limited in the ability to stay safe or be aware of your surroundings then maybe your should bring a spotter for assistance of find another pass time. We are ALL Adults and the range officers shouldn't have to be Kindergarten Cops.

Craig_VA said:

I wonder if the ranges with those siren/klaxon set ups have invested in a panic button on every other lane on the line. Experienced range shooters will yell out immediately when they see a problem. Running to a single point RED BUTTON may make for a delay.

Craig

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The range I work at on the 100yd range there are 42 benches. So that would be exactly what is needed . 42 benches of over zealous ranges officers with a button to the red light. Wounder exactly how long that would last and how many shooters would stick around to endure it.

In today's world with so many new shooters and everyone seeming to run yellow and even red lights, I'm not so sure I'd want to shoot at a range where I had to rely on over 40 people all doing what was right. I never advance to the target until I see everyone on the line has acknowledged the cease fire. Sadly, ranges and people aren't what they used to be. May be in old clubs with restricted membership things would be different. But even there, you have to watch new members closely for safety issues.

Grizzly2 said:

In today's world with so many new shooters and everyone seeming to run yellow and even red lights, I'm not so sure I'd want to shoot at a range where I had to rely on over 40 people all doing what was right. I never advance to the target until I see everyone on the line has acknowledged the cease fire. Sadly, ranges and people aren't what they used to be. May be in old clubs with restricted membership things would be different. But even there, you have to watch new members closely for safety issues.

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Much agreed, now go back to my post #8 and the last paragraph on range commands. That is the procedure we follow on all 4 ranges. And we do get an above average number of new people shooting for the first time. As Range officers and range employees it is our responsibility to keep everyone safe including the facility. We have lights on each range, we also have loud speakers. We also have effective procedures and commands that we use that have been proven to work. Not might work or oh they work sometimes. They work as long as we do our jobs.

On the 25ys pistol and sight in range we have we have 22 benches, and at the 100yd range we have 44 benches and these two ranges have 2 RO's on station at all times with a CRSO floating between all ranges.. The 50yd range has 16 benches plus 6 lanes for 22 Rimfire Plinking at steel targets. while the 300yd range has 12 benches.

Range operation is as such. 15min firing cycles. 2min. warning given before a Cease Fire. At Cease Fire the Lights are turned on and the Order Cease Fire is given and repeated and then repeated a third time if needed. Along with the Cease Fire the command is given to Unload Firearms, Remove Magazines, Place a Chamber Flag, It changing a target pick up new target and staplers and step back from the Bench. Do not approach bench or handle firearms or ammunition during a Cease Fire. Do not move down range until the all clear has been given.

Nothing or no one proceeds until those commands have been followed. So far this practice has worked at this range for over 30 years. Is there a need to change? I don't think so!

The time to holler STOP is when those direction have not been followed and then the STOP Order is mostly directed at one person who has not followed the previous commands and rules. Amazing how many times we have to yell STOP and Move away from the bench! Next would be STOP Do Not Proceed Down Range.

"Stop,stop,stop", is the command they use on the military ranges here when everything needs to be shut down in a hurry and I think everybody is used to it.

I've been on ranges on several US Army and one US Marine base, and "CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE!" was the command to stop firing at all of them, including the ones I ran at. Ft. Ord and Camp Roberts.

I see you were probably in the UK. I would expect it would be different.

Agree with many respondents, but will be clearer yet:

CEASE FIRE (often, 3x) means cease FIRE and nothing else. Unless followed by other instructions, it usually means "and clear the action, let it hang, or step away, as we're changing tasks or someone is going downrange. Indicate when clear." Specifics vary, but the gist is the same always IME.

STOP means Emergency Stop, or "Stop doing absolutely everything." If no one has addressed you or clarified it's for this guy and everyone just resume or cease fire or whatever, after a moment, look at who issued the stop command without moving anything else, and find out if it applies to you. The presumption is the recipient is about to do something dangerous NOW. Movement, firing, anything. Actions on cease-fire may be dangerous so it's a different command.

Replacing Cease Fire with Stop takes away your ability to have an Emergency Stop command. Inconsistency aside, it's potentially more dangerous.


Also to inconsistency: most shooters do not get one range their entire life. Common signals help. One bit of one of my local ranges has a flag code system that is totally dreamed up as far as everyone knows, and it's somewhere between confusing and dangerous. E.g. Red flag showing does not mean Range Hot, but Do Not Fire: People Downrange. Oh, except for the high power range a few hundred m away, where there's a normal flagpole and red means range hot (◔_◔)

So I do a weird thing called SCA (there may be some here anyway) where we hit each other with sticks for fun including massive battles.

Maybe rip a page of safety from them?
train everyone to repeat the command HOLD!!!!
it gets everyone to help, everyone knows Hold means stop the hell what ya where doing then and there.

Stop is a bad command for multiple reasons like said, stop could mean anything. Hold is an untraditionally shouted word, and will catch everyones attn. Just a 2 cents. that idea may not pan out either.

Every one in SCA (yes, I and others here know what the Society for Creative Anachronism is) may know that term, but gunners may not. The current military commands of commence fire and cease fire (cease fire repeated 3X LOUDLY) has worked for all military and many other ranges for a long time, and require minimal training. Indeed most pick them up as they are used because they are logical and easy to understand, as are "the range is hot" and "the range is clear."

Besides, it might have mean something a little different back then......





I did a little Renaissance Festival weapons re enacting back in the day. Even played a Scot, though later than depicted.


My sons did also. (don't have a pic of me in costume on my computer.)

It's not the words of the command you shout, but whether the people are listening for it or not. If they're listening for you to shout, "Mary Poppins!" they will react promptly when you do, otherwise, they won't. A better test of a command is whether its utterance can get the attention and compliance of someone not prepared to listen and comply. "Stop!" may get some attention, but compliance will be hard for someone who doesn't understand who should stop and what they should stop and possibly even when they should stop. This is relevant not just to range commands, but also to potentially violent encounters anywhere.

To me Cease fire-Clear and ground all weapons is something addressed to the range/group of people
Stop (USPSA for example) is a command addressed to an individual.

Want to go “cold” yell the line is COLD always note everyone actions ! Ask everyone when done down range,everyone back?Then Yell we have a HOT range the range is HOT!! Must be nice to have private land I don’t ,Sooo I am a self appointed RO ,when I was going shooting lots every weekend I would yell and worse
At shooters going down range on a hot range!!!,! Shamed a guy once so bad he left fast !Missed this one by one day ,,, man shot himself 45 Degree angle sternum putting his 45/70 cocked crack bbl in a case ,what the hell , So sad !

A year old revival!!!!

Where I worked in the military, air horns were the signal to cease fire and freeze in place. This started in live fire shoot houses and migrated to all situations.