Small gun performance

Interesting. He's looking at the operational effectiveness of small vs. large rather than the usual caliber-wars.

That's intriguing.

Todd.

Very good information in that article, and it is something I have personally noticed myself. I always try to practice with both small compact pistols and full size pistols when I go to the range.

GEM said:

An interesting analysis of small gun performance. As might be expected it's not as good as the large guns and less experienced folks suffer the greatest decrement.

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We semi-frequently have threads where folks are looking to get into semi-autos and a concealment gun.

I always recommend they get a duty sized semi-auto (Glock family would be G19/G17/G34 size) first and learn how they work and shoot before working their way to the smaller versions of those guns that are invariably harder to shoot, especially for somebody not experienced with a semi-auto pistol.

I get the impression with a lot of people, size and convenience is the driving thing, and not much thought or bother beyond that.

Ive taken a number of people shooting who insisted they wanted an Aireweight J frame (boy at the shop told them so), right up until they shot it. 8 times out of 10, I get the gun back before the first cylinder is empty. Most of the small autos, in a somewhat realistic caliber anyway, are like that too, especially the blowbacks. "Little" guns are not a beginners guns.

Even with a full sized gun, its usually a big challenge for many.

This is an ongoing lifestyle, that you need to work hard and keep up with, if you want to get somewhere reasonably proficient, and then try and just maintain your skills. And you never really ever "get there", not that there is a "there". I think once people see that, they lose interest pretty quick.

Smaller guns really only have one thing going for them, concealability. Downsides: 1) smaller grips, so less purchase 2) shorter sight radius 3) smaller sights 4) less mass to absorb recoil so more difficult to get back on target for follow-up shots. It's no wonder most people shoot them worse than a full size gun.

I do get a kick out of newer shooters that want to shoot my LCR or LCP because of their size. I warn them that it's not a pleasant experience.

"Little guns are not beginner's guns."

Amen.

I sometimes point out that police have about a 50% hit rate with "service size" pistols and those carrying a pocket gun may expect no better.
The number one typically unstated thing that limits carry is unnecessary (not required) shirt tucking, when not at work.

GEM said:

An interesting analysis of small gun performance. As might be expected it's not as good as the large guns and less experienced folks suffer the greatest decrement.

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Yes. Nuttin' really surprising in the linked article. Just reconfirming what most of us know already. I too carry a J-Frame many times and I too understand and accept it's limitations. I also practice with it often to try and make it so I am not handicapping myself severely by carrying it. Similar to when I was in construction........the size of your hammer matters too.

My two primary carry guns are the Kahr CW9, and it's smaller brother, the CM9... one round less, and about .6" of barrel length, all else being equal. Just reducing the grip size by one round makes the CM far more difficult to unholster and present, and I always shoot lower with it because it sits differently in my hand... this using the same holsters and everything. As soon as I put an extended magazine (or even just the 7rd CW magazine) in, everything is same-same.

I used to carry the CM a lot because of the size... but not so much, anymore. In my mind, getting the pistol out of the holster and presented is the most compelling factor... and the CW has the advantage. The CM's have been largely relegated to BOB or backup truck guns, etc.

Pretty much what I determined with my own performance evaluations with small guns.

But I do like that linked drill, probably run that a few times next range trip.

Am I assuming correctly, that in the 3SL drill (last video), a revolver shooter will have the opportunity to reload between each series? These guys are shooting semi's with 10 round capacity. Each separate series is 5 rounds.

The series where the shooter starts with an empty gun, then has to insert a magazine, chamber and then shoot, will present more of a challenge for the revolver shooter without a lot of practice with speed loaders. I suppose a lot of revolver shooters also don't strongly consider a set of grips with cutout for a speed loader, concentrating more on comfort.

I have a an original release S&W M640 38SPL Serial Number CEN**** with lettering "TESTED FOR +P+".(marked in the cylinder window of the frame) Follow on production eliminated the +P+ marking as there was no standard for +P+ also smooth rose wood grips. and added a Tyler's grip adapter. What I found was that most individuals don't practice with the J Frame snub nose that much before being relegated to the sock drawer. As for myself I shot the M640 extensively at 7 & 25 yard lines and occasionally at the 50yd line. Yes its a challenge! I'm not at all saying accuracy wise equivalent of what is referred to as a full size handgun but on humanoid targets it works if the shooter is competent.

As for what is referred to as full size handguns I dwell in the the housed of the 9X19MM and the 45ACP semiautomatic pistols. With that said my EDC is a S&W Shield 9X19mm which is referred to as a Compact. Accuracy wise at 25 and 50 Yd. lines accuracy is more than acceptable if the shooter is up to the task. Most shooters I have observed shoot adequately slow fire and not so much rapid-fire as the distance to target increases.

That's just my observations others may have a differing opinion.

GEM, thanks for posting, quite interesting info.

bangswitch said:

I suppose a lot of revolver shooters also don't strongly consider a set of grips with cutout for a speed loader, concentrating more on comfort.

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What is this cutout for a speedloader you speak of.

Speaking of speedloaders, I'm missing one and it is driving me nuts. That and a box of Buffalo bore .38spl.

I actually shoot really good with smaller guns, I consider myself decent with a compact and full size, I've become fast from lots of shooting and fluid with reloads and presentation and all that jazz but when it comes to deliberately trying to place 10-15 rds into the center is a challenge, I've had a trembly hands my whole life. But surprisingly I can place my shots very accurately with LCP's and sub 2' revolvers and such.

You should practice with whatever gun you choose to carry, because the gun will not carry you through the fight.

I carry a J frame most of the time, so I make sure to practice with it a lot. The article makes it sound like the gun is at fault for lower scores with small guns, when in reality it is the shooters fault. The answer is more practice with small guns

Jonesy814 said:

I carry a J frame most of the time, so I make sure to practice with it a lot. The article makes it sound like the gun is at fault for lower scores with small guns, when in reality it is the shooters fault. The answer is more practice with small guns

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for the most part I agree, observing the limitations of any specific gun.

Jonesy814 said:

The article makes it sound like the gun is at fault for lower scores with small guns, when in reality it is the shooters fault. The answer is more practice with small guns

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Are you indicating the guys that are winning competitions with Glock G34's would be just as successful with a G26 if they practiced with the G26 as much as their G34?

Would we assume then, there is no advantage to a longer barrel, longer sight radius, and a full length grip for fast and accurate shooting?

I'm skeptical.

DustyGmt said:

What is this cutout for a speedloader you speak of.

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Pat Riot said:

View attachment 972593

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Thanks. I never noticed this.

I don’t always carry but when I do it’s either a J frame 357 or my Canik 9mm. Love the Canik and it’s superior in every way but that little revolver is just so damn comfortable.

hey smepl this said:

I don’t always carry but when I do it’s either a J frame 357 or my Canik 9mm. Love the Canik and it’s superior in every way but that little revolver is just so damn comfortable.

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Perfect setup....sorry.

Nicely done lol

I like the Glock 42 .380 for a compromise, small yet very shootable and accurate.