George P
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We shotgunners tend to say the same for a 410, but get ridiculed for it
Small gun performance
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DustyGmt
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I'm very tempted to offer my LGS a a couple (2)-180rd bulk packs of Q3131 5.56 and $180 for a NIB S&W 642 Airweight .38
I've had my eye on a 642 for many years, I always wanted to hold out for one in 9mm over .38 but since every gun I've ever got my wife to carry has turned out to be less than ideal for her, the 642 will be my next attempt. I do have a Cobra snub 6 shot but it's a lil bulkier than a J frame and I'd like to carry the J frame from time to time. I just won't be able to do any extensive shooting with my wife to get comfortable with the gun as I've run pretty low on .38. I wish I had been buying a 50rd box every time I was at the shop @ $14/box
I've had my eye on a 642 for many years, I always wanted to hold out for one in 9mm over .38 but since every gun I've ever got my wife to carry has turned out to be less than ideal for her, the 642 will be my next attempt. I do have a Cobra snub 6 shot but it's a lil bulkier than a J frame and I'd like to carry the J frame from time to time. I just won't be able to do any extensive shooting with my wife to get comfortable with the gun as I've run pretty low on .38. I wish I had been buying a 50rd box every time I was at the shop @ $14/box
Obviously a bigger gun has advantages. A couple years ago a friend and I went into a gunshop. He wanted a J frame after having shot mine quite a bit. The clerk said that they are nice but not much good beyond 20 feet. We laughed because we frequently shoot mine at 75 feet and can ring an 8" plate 5 for five. The clerk obviously thought J frames are not very accurate which is just not true. They are harder to shoot accurately because of the small grip & short sight radius but the gun itself is not lacking in accuracy
JERRY
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most of the poo poo'ing I hear or read about a certain gun is more often than not a result of an inept shooter, and less to do with the actual capabilities of the gun itself.
DustyGmt
Member
I always, always, shoot more accurately with my 19 than I do my 17. There has got to be some reason why, possibly how I grip the gun. They are close enough in bbl length that there shouldn't be a big difference but there is. I consistently shoot tighter groups with my 19.
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FFGColorado
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I'd certainly have the wife shoot a 642 first. I owned one and I was not only really crappy with it but it is also pretty snappy, for me..REALLY simple...as in...point/shoot as a DAO...
YMMV and IMHO and all that.
JR24
Member
Double that. My wife enjoys wheelguns more than autos, and she's a terror with S&W mod 66-2 and her Vaquero, but she won't touch jframes after a few shots with a 642 and Ruger LCR.
Frankly, I dont like shooting them much either. I'd much rather spend a little extra effort concealing a gun I like to shoot, like a Glock 19 or SP 101
DustyGmt
Member
Yeah, good call. It's been a pretty long time since I shot one. I always loved the way they look and feel in the hand. Perfect lil snub. My uncle has one, non shrouded hammer version so maybe he can loan it out to me to try with the wife. If it's too snappy I'd probably have to look into something else.
I was looking at a S&W EZ Performance Center .380 for for $599 the other day. Real nice gun, I usually stick with Glocks for defensive/CC guns but if it was easier for my wife to shoot maybe it would be worth it. She has trouble with pulling back the slides because while she is very strong, she has tiny lil hands and wrists like lil twigs and she always looks like she is putting maximum effort on clambering a round. Very lil confidence that if she had to address a malfunction with the gun that she would be able to quickly. That's why I was thinking about the 642 revolver. Small, light, ease of operation, etc... Maybe the 642 with some reduced recoil hard cast wadcutters would be a lil softer shooting, do they make such a thing? Probably impossible to find right now. I have some BB HCWC .38's around here somewhere but can't find them, I can't recall if they were any softer shooting than a typical .38 load. Don't even remember the grain weight of the Buffalo Bore HCWC's either....
I wonder if the S&W EZ versions are just a cut dry case of putting in a lighter RSA. If that was the case I could just put a lighter RSA in my 43, idk.
She has tried a number of guns, none of them really seem to be ideal, she loves the LCP, I just don't love it for her. She just can't hit anything with it, lol. I mean I'm sure if she had to press it into action she would make contact but I just want something that checks all the boxes. Accurate to at least 15ft, ease of operation, 5 shot capacity minimum, light enough that she can take it with her. For now I guess she could carry the LCP racked and ready.
Eta: I probably don't have to even buy a new gun, I would just like to. I think there are probably better guns out there that would be better suited to her, but I do have a pretty good assortment of pistols. She just needs more practice but she never really seems all that enthusiastic about going most times. She enjoys. 22lr guns. Possible she could carry the Glock 44 I just bought. If not maybe there is nothing wrong with my Cobra. She thinks it's an old relic and doesn't have much "cool" factor, I'm speaking strictly from her perspective. I think it's one of the coolest guns I own even though the finish is probably 65%-70%.
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JR24
Member
Perhaps just more practice? I had an LCP and it was no sharpshooter but I could get good hits out to 10 yards with it.
Maybe dry fire or something like the iTarget Pro? Very good for working on presentation and trigger pull.
bikerdoc
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Smallest I go is a 1911 Officers model or CZ 75 compact.
WheelGunMan
Member
I carried DAO snubbies for years. The DAO action taught me the importance of trigger press control. I practiced a lot and became pretty competent in shooting accurately with a short barrel. I attribute that short barrel and long trigger pull regimen in giving me the ability to shoot all my firearms rather accurately.
FFGColorado
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Look at this..nifty little revolver, 380, , DAO like the 642..'can' be used w/o moonclips. Same size as 642. Had one, wish I didn't trade it away.
Taurus M380
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Mohican1
Member
At age 55 on my farm 25yd range 2 handed on top of bags with my Smith model 637 using 130gr Federal .38 FMJ I hit a 2.5in spinner 5 of 5 times. I consistently do it 3/5. Single action of course. J frames are very capable.
For some shooters, small guns will shoot better!
Mas AYOOB recently wrote a column about how an acquaintance found he shoot just as well or better with a GLOCK 26, than he did with a GLOCK 19 or 17 if the range was 25 yards or less. AYOOB then tried it out and found his friend was right. The smaller gun could fit the shooters hand better than a larger GLOCK, depending on the person.
I can personally shoot my SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD9 Sub Compact as well as my GLOCK 19 or 17.
My sister in law normally carries and shoots a 5 shot snub nose .38 Special, usually a CHARTER ARMS. My brother got a terrific deal on a RUGER GP-100 with a 4 inch barrel and they took it to the range where she discovered that despite the reduced recoil, she did not like the GP-100. For her, the gun was too heavy. I can definitely understand that.
The funny thing is that she is a MUCH BETTER SHOT when she shoots his GLOCK 26. The groups are smaller by a large margin, but she feels more comfortable with the CHARTER ARMS.
My wife found that 5 shot, J-frame size .38 Specials were too uncomfortable for her to shoot, yet she does fine with my BERETTA 92Compact. I think that the larger grip spreads out the recoil impulse better for her and good handling qualities of the BERETTA are an asset. She much prefers the 3 dot sights of the BERETTA to those on a J-frame.
I frequently see gun shop salesmen trying to steer woman, especially older woman into the 5 shot .38 Specials as if that was the only thing that a woman can shoot. Yes, the grip may be a better fit than the larger revolver, but I think that many woman would do better with a compact semi-auto if they are shown how to operate it properly.
My agency has many woman officers and they shoot just fine with our present issue GLOCK 19 and the previous issue H&K P-2000.
I think that too often we stereotype shooters and guns.
Jim
Mas AYOOB recently wrote a column about how an acquaintance found he shoot just as well or better with a GLOCK 26, than he did with a GLOCK 19 or 17 if the range was 25 yards or less. AYOOB then tried it out and found his friend was right. The smaller gun could fit the shooters hand better than a larger GLOCK, depending on the person.
I can personally shoot my SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD9 Sub Compact as well as my GLOCK 19 or 17.
My sister in law normally carries and shoots a 5 shot snub nose .38 Special, usually a CHARTER ARMS. My brother got a terrific deal on a RUGER GP-100 with a 4 inch barrel and they took it to the range where she discovered that despite the reduced recoil, she did not like the GP-100. For her, the gun was too heavy. I can definitely understand that.
The funny thing is that she is a MUCH BETTER SHOT when she shoots his GLOCK 26. The groups are smaller by a large margin, but she feels more comfortable with the CHARTER ARMS.
My wife found that 5 shot, J-frame size .38 Specials were too uncomfortable for her to shoot, yet she does fine with my BERETTA 92Compact. I think that the larger grip spreads out the recoil impulse better for her and good handling qualities of the BERETTA are an asset. She much prefers the 3 dot sights of the BERETTA to those on a J-frame.
I frequently see gun shop salesmen trying to steer woman, especially older woman into the 5 shot .38 Specials as if that was the only thing that a woman can shoot. Yes, the grip may be a better fit than the larger revolver, but I think that many woman would do better with a compact semi-auto if they are shown how to operate it properly.
My agency has many woman officers and they shoot just fine with our present issue GLOCK 19 and the previous issue H&K P-2000.
I think that too often we stereotype shooters and guns.
Jim
JTQ
Member
I think the theory was the shorter frame/barrel had less flex than the longer frame/barrel of the G17/G19.
The G26 has the same trigger reach as the G17 and G19. The grip is just shorter top to bottom. There isn't a "fit" advantage to the shorter grip.
Edit to add: I believe that was simply accuracy and not accuracy at speed, where a full size grip and a longer sight radius would most likely be an advantage.
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JTQ
Member
Correct, I'm not saying the accuracy was a theory, but rather why it was more accurate was a theory. Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, I read the article years ago, and correct me if I am wrong, but he was trying to figure out why the G26 was more accurate for him. What I'm saying is, I believe his theory, in the article, was the smaller dimensions allowed less flex than the larger gun.
Zendude
Member
Small guns in general are more difficult to shoot accurately than larger guns. There are things you can change to get more accurate and faster follow up shots with small guns. One is grip mods for better fit like rubber sleeves, grip tape, or changing grips on a revolver. The other is choosing a cartridge that doesn’t overpower the gun. Either choose loads with less recoil, or choose a less powerful caliber for small guns.
AK103K
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Keep in mind, its not just shooting them that can be more difficult, just getting them into action quickly can also be a good bit more difficult and a bit of a challenge, especially if you dont practice regularly and/or youre one of those people who changes things up a lot.
The guns are smaller and often harder to get a good hold of, especially if you arent using a proper holster meant for ready, and reasonably quick access. The guns also often dont point all that great, and again, especially if you arent regularly practicing with them, and shooting them from how you carry them and "the start".
Shooting them is just one part of the equation here, and the start, is just as important as the end, and actually, maybe even more so.
The guns are smaller and often harder to get a good hold of, especially if you arent using a proper holster meant for ready, and reasonably quick access. The guns also often dont point all that great, and again, especially if you arent regularly practicing with them, and shooting them from how you carry them and "the start".
Shooting them is just one part of the equation here, and the start, is just as important as the end, and actually, maybe even more so.
Correct. That's why COMPARING performance with each shooter shooting each of the different guns, like this article did, is so important. Comparing two different shooters with different guns probably is telling you much more about the shooters than the gun. When the same shooter shoots both guns, that's how to see what the effect of the gun is.
Could be your G19 is more accurate than your G17. Could be that it's a gun fit issue. My wife shoots better with her G19 than with a G17. I wouldn't really call the G19 a "small gun" in the sense that the article is talking about. They are saying a small gun is a snub revolver or a small single-stack auto-pistol.
Bcwitt
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Self defense is usually 6 feet & less. Accuracy & target scores make no difference @ that distance. A small uncomplicated revolver that goes bang is just what is called for. An auto that gets friction on the slide in a scuffle absolutely will jam. Never happen w a wheel gun.
Mohican1
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I agree unless the perp has a grip on the revolvers cylinder/frame before the hammer is cocked.
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