Light Hammer

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SlowFuse

SlowFuse

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I have an uberti 1858 that usually takes 2 strikes to set off the cap. Ive swapped stock nipples (with uncle mikes and treso/ampco) and tried different caps with similar results on all combinations. I ordered a new main spring and replaced the original thinking it could have just been weak. No help.

I've found plenty of info on lightening the hammer pull on revolvers... Any tricks to do the opposite? It feels like it takes about half the effort to cock versus other nma's.
 
I would expect one of the combinations of nipples and caps you described to work, even if you do have a light hammer.

It sounds like poor cap to nipple fit and that the first strike seats the cap second fires it.
Have you tried FIRMLY seating the caps with a wood dowel or other tool?
 
@Big Bore 44 thanks for the suggestion. I actually had one main spring crack from what i'm assuming was too much pressure on the adjustment screw. The screw was seated well below flush.

@Malachi Leviticus Blue I usually use a chop stick cut in half or a piece of delrin plastic rod to seat with what I think is a good bit of pressure. I can visually see the cap moving deeper onto the nipple most of the time. But, I think this could still be part of the issue. CCI #11's are about all I can find right now and they may be a bit small on the nipples and not fully seated with hand pressure. Next step i'm thinking is taking the factory nipples and turning the cone down a bit with emery cloth or something similar.

@arcticap This looks like it may be worth trying.
 
The problem is too much space between the nose of the hammer and the nipple. Four lbs. (Which is the hammer draw weight I set) is plenty of force for caps. Extra spring weight is needless and destructive to the frame /nipples. You need to remove material on both sides of the hammer to allow more protrusion of the nose so there's contact between the hammer and nipple. Then you'll get reliable ignition. Make sure the bottom or top of the hammer nose isn't contacting the cylinder which would interrupt contact with the cap.

Mike
 
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45 Dragoon said:
The problem is too much space between the nose of the hammer and the nipple. Four lbs. (Which is the hammer draw weight I set) is plenty of force for caps. Extra spring weight is needless and destructive to the frame /nipples. You need to remove material on both sides of the hammer to allow more protrusion of the nose so there's contact between the hammer and nipple. Then you'll get reliable ignition. Make sure the bottom or top of the hammer nose isn't contacting the cylinder which would interrupt contact with the cap.
Click to expand...

AGREED.
The first thing I thought of after the OP listed all of the adjustments done was to wonder about the hammer to nipple interface...and was the hammer rubbing on anything as it moved when released from the trigger.

The OP might also want to check within the revolver frame and look to see if something like a little burr is causing just enough friction on the moving hammer to reduce impact.

LD
 
Found the issue, I think. The leading edge of the hammer is hitting the left side of the slot it falls into. There's a small chip/dent on the edge its hitting. Im going to try to take it apart tomorrow if I find time. I'm guessing when it's not actually hitting the edge of the frame it's scraping the inside wall hard enough to slow down the momentum.

So, if something isn't off internally making it strike the left side of this slot in the frame, should I relieve the frame or the hammer? I'm thinking hammer since they're easier to replace...
 
Clean up both places but clearance the hammer for no contact with that area. It's being pushed to the left because of the bolt arm pushing against the cam. That's what is supposed to happen but the cam is a little tall and the bolt arm is too stiff. This is where the "tuning" aspect comes in. The "heavy spring" fix would just make things worse with damage to the frame and a more "uncomfortable to shoot" revolver. Don't be in the camp that thinks a cap gun has to have a 2 thumb mainspring, it's much more pleasurable shooting an "easy functioning" revolver. Good that you caught the problem!

Mike
 
Mike is right about cap guns not needing two hands. Ive come across some really stiff set ups and some gun owners who ask me not to lighten them because theu feel its the only way caps will go off for reliable shooting. I do my best to convince them otherwise and that a cap gun can be veey smooth and light. When it comes to stock main springs...they rarely are ever the culprit for caps not popping. Good job troubleshooting and glad you found the issue
 
Some folks have mentioned using a hammer shim to help align the hammer.
I haven't searched very much, but did find a post by Smokin' Joe regarding a Colt hammer shim made of copper or brass stock being .008". --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/shims-to-tighten-the-action.589136/#post-7266063

McMaster Carr sells peel away precision shims made of either brass, aluminum or stainless.--->>> https://www.mcmaster.com/precision-shims/peel-away-layered-ring-shims/
This doesn't mean that they don't sell better ones in some kind of an assortment, because they sell tons of different shims imcluding plastic washers, peel away layered stock, you name it. --->>> https://www.mcmaster.com/shims/

And AbitNutz had inquired about trigger/hammer shims from this specific outfit. --->>> https://www.triggershims.com/index.php
The outfit offers advice and has a section titled "Misc. shims"
 
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SlowFuse said:
Found the issue, I think. The leading edge of the hammer is hitting the left side of the slot it falls into. There's a small chip/dent on the edge its hitting. Im going to try to take it apart tomorrow if I find time. I'm guessing when it's not actually hitting the edge of the frame it's scraping the inside wall hard enough to slow down the momentum.
Click to expand...

BRAVO well done....<looks for an applause emoji> ....
GLAD you seem to have diagnosed the problem and for the folks that mentioned remedies for your problem, I also vote in favor!

LD
 
SlowFuse said:
Found the issue, I think. The leading edge of the hammer is hitting the left side of the slot it falls into. There's a small chip/dent on the edge its hitting. Im going to try to take it apart tomorrow if I find time. I'm guessing when it's not actually hitting the edge of the frame it's scraping the inside wall hard enough to slow down the momentum.

So, if something isn't off internally making it strike the left side of this slot in the frame, should I relieve the frame or the hammer? I'm thinking hammer since they're easier to replace...
Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't notice before.
On the "Misc. Shims" page, there's a link that says UBERTI 1858 HAMMER AND TRIGGER SHIMS.
Clicking on that link brings up a page with shims for the Uberti 1858 hammer, and it gives the dimensions of the different options for hammer shims. --->>> https://www.triggershims.com/misc_shims.php#Uberti_1858

That would seem to indicate that it's a common problem that can be solved with shims.
Maybe you'll just need to keep them lubed.
 
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I actually use .003 and .005 copper/brass/aluminum sheeting to make shims on my personal guns. I dont like there to be any slop/play on my guns around the loading arm. So that when i move my gun around the loading bar doesnt "rattle". For some reason it annoys me...so i put shims on the screw in between the barrel and loading arm assemby. I sometimes will make adjustments to tighten up where the latch is that holds the loading arm.
 
I've got an update here...

I ordered a box of brass shims and they came today. So I took this Uberti apart and attempted to place a shim on the left side of the hammer. They were too thick to fit.

Soo, I said what the heck and got a flat diamond file and started removing material off the left side of the hammer slot. First, the area where there was a noticeable dent/chip from the hammer impact. Bolted in just the hammer and hand and tested it. Was better but still had dragging on the lower part, same side. Enough that I think it could be slowing it down on release. Spent another minute smoothing that area out and tried again, and it was a success. Hard to believe such a tiny bit of metal made such a difference!

I put my Treso nipples back in (had swapped in another pair troubleshooting) and snapped 6 each of CCI #11 and Rws 1075s. All went bang the first time!

Thanks to you guys and your input to help find the problem.
 
45 Dragoon said:
Clean up both places but clearance the hammer for no contact with that area. It's being pushed to the left because of the bolt arm pushing against the cam. That's what is supposed to happen but the cam is a little tall and the bolt arm is too stiff. This is where the "tuning" aspect comes in. The "heavy spring" fix would just make things worse with damage to the frame and a more "uncomfortable to shoot" revolver. Don't be in the camp that thinks a cap gun has to have a 2 thumb mainspring, it's much more pleasurable shooting an "easy functioning" revolver. Good that you caught the problem!

Mike
Click to expand...

I don't know...I was thinking of getting a cheater bar that slipped over the cocking piece of the hammer, then going...oh...ten pounds on the mainspring? Maybe 12. My holster would then have a little pocket on the side for said cheater bar.
 
SlowFuse said:
I have an uberti 1858 that usually takes 2 strikes to set off the cap. Ive swapped stock nipples (with uncle mikes and treso/ampco) and tried different caps with similar results on all combinations. I ordered a new main spring and replaced the original thinking it could have just been weak. No help.

I've found plenty of info on lightening the hammer pull on revolvers... Any tricks to do the opposite? It feels like it takes about half the effort to cock versus other nma's.
Click to expand...
Have you tried a longer hammer spring screw, add another leaf spring to stiffen the existing spring.
 
I'm going to leave it for now, seems like removing material fixed the issue. Hammer pull still feels light (comparing side by side to other NMA's) but I believe it's not losing momentum now from the hammer scraping/striking the slot on the frame. Would rather not make it harder to cock like I was originally thinking I would have to do if it's not necessary.

If the issue re-appears I will likely look into the cam and bolt area as Mike mentioned.
 
Good plan. Percussion caps don’t take much force to detonate, so stock springs are usually fine, as long as the frame or cap fragments aren’t interfering with the hammer.
 
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