Whidden Dies

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Only way to do that is a smaller chamber or a tight necked chamber or brass with thicker necks. You have to size the ID of the neck enough for good bullet hold, so the OD has to follow, only way to decrease the fit is thicker brass, or a tighter necked chamber. The best way is a tight necked chamber and neck turned brass to fit very tightly, something Benchrest shooters do. That is just one part of the equation though.

.262 neck 6 PPC Benchrest rifle.
Rosenthal Action BR Rifle Pic 1.JPG

6 PPC brass neck turned to have a very tight fit with a bullet seated.
Sorted BB Pic 1.JPG

And custom dies to size the body to as close to the chamber as feasible. I don't have pics of my two bushing style FL 6 PPC sizers,
but here is the Niel Jones hand die semi custom seater.
Neil Jones 6 PPC Seater - THR size.jpg
 
So here's a question for the experts, do all ( bottle neck) cases expand to the full inside diameter of the chambered neck when fired?
 
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Regarding soot, load pressure, and the use of custom dies:
First, load pressure is partially dependent on the case sealing against the chamber walls during firing. I hope we can all agree on that.

Don't worry about soot?
Why not?
For soot to appear on the outside neck of the cartridge, the neck can not be sealing against the chamber walls during firing. I don't understand why you would not want to try to correct that issue with handloaded ammo.
Sounds to me like you dismiss the problem because you do not notice accuracy issues from it, but how would you know if you dismiss the problem? I'm guessing you think that as long as this issue is consistently present every time you fire the rifle it is not something that needs to be fixed? If that is what you are thinking, I am not sure how I feel about that, but I do also wonder what your powder burning between the outside of the brass neck and the chamber is doing to your chamber, but I think benchrest shooters don't expect much life out of their barrels anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. For my Arisaka, I am hoping to get close to 7,500+ round barrel life, on top of whatever has already been shot out of it by its original-issue soldier and owners previous to me.

More specific to my situaton:
As most of you know, smokeless powder needs pressure to fully burn. If the brass does not seal against the walls of the chamber before pressure starts to drop from the bullet being ejected into the barrel, the powder will not completely burn, resulting in a squib (possibly, probably) and a condition called "powder meltdown" where the brass case is partially filled with congealed, unburned powder. Many factors can contribute to causing powder meltdown, including very cold weather, using LR primers instead of LRM, using a powder that is too fast-burning (which generates the impulse for the bullet to be ejected but ironically does not generate enough overall pressure to fully burn the powder), chambers that are too oversized for the loaded round of ammo, and barrels that are too large for the bullet being used (many people use .308-.311 bullets for the 7.7x58 loading, but .312 bullets are available from Hornady). Attacking this problem can be done various ways, including using dies that allow the rounds to fit snugly to the chamber when loading the round to be fired. Some people prefer to neck-size fired brass, and thus avoid the expense and effort of getting custom FL sizing dies. I did not want to do that even though it is touted by many as a quick, inexpensive solution. My concern is that eventually, those pieces of brass will need to be full-length sized and one may not know that until one is at the range, with loaded ammo that will not chamber. And, however one finds out that the cartridges will not load, one then has to go back and FL size the brass and that sets up a possible powder meltdown when one takes that now-FL-resized ammo to the range. I think most Arisaka shooters would respond to that with, "well, gee, how many rounds are you planning to shoot from that thing anyway?" And as I said above, I want to make and shoot many thousands of rounds. I had the ammo meltdown problem happen with commercially-sourced 7.7 ammo that I no longer use for that reason. I use my Whidden dies, LRM primers, 4064 powder, and Hornady .312 diameter bullets. I can fire my ammo on 32 degree days and have never had the powder meltdown happen with my ammo. Did I need the Whidden dies to accomplish that? No, of course not. I could have attacked the problem with "belt OR suspenders" instead of "belt, AND suspenders, AND better fitting pants", but whatever. It's my rifle and my money and I'm happy.
 
First off - this thread is describing a fool’s errand. Neck shooting is truly a non-issue, and manipulating your die choice to dimensionally influence your neck tension just to eliminate neck-sooting result is folly.

It should go without saying, but we set our neck tension - which dictates the outer diameter of our cartridge necks when seated - as a controlled variable for primary ignition. We size with bushing dies and/or expand with mandrels to control our neck tension. Changing dies with some silly idea of reducing neck-sooting by changing our neck diameter is an inappropriate priority. Our neck diameter will be what our neck tension demands, and should not be manipulated just to reduce neck soot.

So with that out of the way, understanding the issue of neck sooting is pretty straight forward. How does soot get to the necks? Easy, the necks aren’t sealing to the chamber wall. Why not?

One of a few things isn’t happening:

1) low pressure load - the ignition is not creating sufficient pressure to move the brass (assumes no issue with brass hardness) and forcibly seal it against the chamber wall

2) work hardened brass - the brass isn’t moving as freely as it should be, such even standard pressure loads can’t force the brass to yield

3) excessive neck clearance - usually this does require item 2 as well, as soft brass will willingly move even to grossly oversized chambers. But this remains a common culprit in factory chambers.

Items 1 and 2 are easily diagnosed and fixed - either you’re running a known low pressure load, or not, and either you’re running soft new or annealed brass, or you’re not.

The third - the excessive dimensional clearance - is more expensive to fix. So what can happen here to cause this misfitment? As stated in the outset - NECK OD IS SET DEPENDENT UPON DESIRED NECK TENSION, so if your necks are too thin for your chamber and you refuse to anneal, you either have to tolerate sooty necks, or buy new/different brass with a thicker neck.

So this entire effort is wasted - changing dies to change your neck OD to be larger to better fit an oversized chamber would reduce your neck tension, which may increase your sooting anyway, since 1) soft brass will move as far as it can, so your brass must be too hard, 2) reducing neck tension can inhibit early ignition pressure, and most importantly 3) neck tension is far more important as a controlled variable than the hassle of sooty necks. No brand of die will make up for a poor understanding of reloading principles - Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
 
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