flourescent lighting. powder scale problems

Prior to adding overhead LED fixtures, I added an LED light strip to my Dillon press. I really like it but I had to relocate my FM radio well away from it when I started using the light.

Have you removed your cell phone from the immediate area? The constant TX/RX signals from your cell phone IS the culprit or adding to the problem, significantly.

My Hornady electronic scale works nicely since I replaced flor overhead lights with LED...Makes it much easier to verify the powder drop on my 550B also.

Bottom Gun said:

Prior to adding overhead LED fixtures, I added an LED light strip to my Dillon press. I really like it but I had to relocate my FM radio well away from it when I started using the light.

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I also have and like LED lights on my loading bench, but also found they interfere with my FM radio unless it's four feet or so away.

Bill681911 said:

when i moved I lost the powder pan for my rcbs 10-10. that I have used for 35+ years without trouble.
now trying to find a decent scale seems to be a real problem
\

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You can buy just a powder pan to put your beam scale back into service if you want, Midway and others have them.

chris

A while back, I did some testing of a well known electronic scale. I found it to be very temperature sensitive and very susceptible to electromagnetic interference (EMI).

One of the ways EMI gets into the scale is via the power cord. That can often be helped with snap on ferrite chokes.

To avoid temperature problems, it is necessary to have the work area at constant temperature for an hour or two before starting, and to let the electronics warm up for half an hour.

The signal from the strain gauges in an electronic scale is on the order of a millivolt. If the design is poorly done, or cuts corners, it is very easy to get these problems. A good design avoids them.

I'd rather use a digital scale, but the above problems keep me using my balance scale, which is practically impervious to temperature variation and immune to EMI.

Bill681911 said:

Walmart has 4’ twin “tube” led lights that are incredibly bright for under $20
I was thinking of this also but I am not sure that it would resolve the problem

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I have one over my bench. It has a motion sensor too. Love it

Bill681911 said:

when i moved I lost the powder pan for my rcbs 10-10. that I have used for 35+ years without trouble.
now trying to find a decent scale seems to be a real problem
\

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Ummmm,?? I do not see anywhere in the thread exactly what SCALE you are using?? Did you mention it? Perhaps your scale is the issue.

Remove the scale from the room and use a known weight ie: check weights.

Any decent balance beam will not care about lights or EMPs!

roc1 said:

Simple to convert to Led your existing fixtures. Bypass ballast change lamps
I’m Master Electrician by trade but telling you it’s easy. Look on internet if unsure best way to go

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I did that in my shop with the 8 foot and 4ft fluorescents at the reload bench. Twice the light and no warm up in cold weather. Really simple to do as long as you get the right LEDs. Single end or both ends for power...

There are a number things you can do if you think your light is causing interference. Newer fluorescent fixtures use electronic ballasts which can operate on a wider frequency than older fixtures. So, 1) get an old heavy fixture 2) increase distance between light and electronic scale and see if that helps. 3) Open up light fixture and shorten the wires that give power to the ballast. Those little wires can act like an antenna and cause problems. Shorten them as much as possible. 4) Find the grounding wire or ground system of the fixture. Contact with bare metal is a good by scraping paint off the fixture where the screw attaches the ballast or where the green wire is attached. Or create a better ground from bare metal on fixture to a water pipe. 4) Get LED bulbs that do not use a ballast to operate. Fixtures with non replaceable bulbs are the cheapest and last 5 years or more. Or you can get bulbs that don't need a ballast, but they are $20 to $30 apiece. Then follow their instruction on how to by-pass the ballast. 6) Find a starving electrical student and have them do it for you.

I assisted my dad by changing all his basement fluorescent bulbs with LED. Had to talk them apart to remove the ballasts. I have LED’s in the basement. They don’t seem to bother the scale. The garage ones do effect the door opener.

My Hornady bench scale seems to work well under fluorescent lights but my National Metalic electronic scale keeps going nuts on me and weight 10 grains more than it should. Once it starts I have to shut it off and leave it shut off. Days later it will weigh accurately again.
I've taken it to every room in the house when it's messed up and it continues to act up.
I just can't trust it. Glad I only paid $18.00 for it on a Black Friday sale.
I sure they are not all like that.
My cell phone has had much more impact on my electronic scales than my fluorescent lights have.

Bill681911 said:

I tried the scales again today "with everything turned off" I have two electronic scales, ( I don't have the brand with me right now) but they came recomended by a cmp pistol shooter who is very fussy about reloading. I ran about 15 charges in each scale #1 gave me from 2.2 gr to 4.7 , scale #2 was from 4.2 to 7.4 grains

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Do your scales have a calibration option and did they come with calibration weights? Not check weights, but calibration weights that match the scale's calibration protocol. If yes, have you calibrated the scales?

Bill681911 said:

I tried the scales again today "with everything turned off" I have two electronic scales, ( I don't have the brand with me right now) but they came recomended by a cmp pistol shooter who is very fussy about reloading. I ran about 15 charges in each scale #1 gave me from 2.2 gr to 4.7 , scale #2 was from 4.2 to 7.4 grains
to answer a previous question on air flow my house & reloading room included have radiant floor heating so there is no air flow

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You have a serious problem there Bill. My advice would be to get another pan for your 10/10 and never look back. As has already been said, you really need a set of grain checkweights, RCBS and Lyman both offer a basic set, comparing one cheap scale against another cheap scale is just guesswork. For anyone less experienced than you this problem could have ended in tears. Some newbie reloader thinking he's spot on with his weights because the scale says so, is really 3 whole grains out could be quite significant.

New pans are available - or you can easily fabricate one as a stopgap. Either way you will you will need to re-balance the beam by adding/subtracting weight to the weightbox - an easy process that I, or others can talk you through if necessary.

Bill681911 said:

Question; if I remove the fluorescent tubes and replace them with LED lighting tubes - will this resolve the problem?

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1. Thoughts...

• IF that is your issue, then only if you get the type of LED replacement tubes that do NOT use the ballast. IMHO, it's the florescent ballast that is generating the strongest magnetic fields.
• Field strength decreases by the square of the distance. So moving the existing lamps away by an additional 1 foot will make a big difference; by 2 feet will make a huge difference.
• You'll need check weights in the weight zone you'll be using. E.g. a 10 gram check weight (154.3 grains) won't do you much good when loading handgun ammo around 4.5gr.

2. Digital scales are affected by everything you can't see....

• magnetic fields
• power glitches
• low power
• software issues
• thermal changes
• drafts and slight breezes
• friction/ 'sticksion'
• bumping/ internal damage

Hope this helps.

Bill681911 said:

You have a serious problem there Bill. My advice would be to get another pan for your 10/10 and never look back. - 1066

I have a replacement pan from rcbs for my 10-10 but it is too light to zero. I am asking Rcbs if they can re-calibrate and do a tune up on my old 10-10

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The pan support assembly should have a cavity in the bottom that you can open and add some weight to get the pan to zero.

On my 5-0-5 scale, there is a phillips head screw in the center of the pan support assembly to gain access to the cavity. They generally use lead shot for zeroing the scale but anything that fits in the cavity and gets the necessary weight will work.

The Wife is using 2 of the LED full spectrum "grow lights" from Walmart for about $9.00 something IIRC in her sheshed for her plants and they are very bright. We did have to buy a new fixture because I completely spaced changing the ballast on the one that was flickering. I'm giving some thought to doing the florescent myself.

Captain Quack.

lightman said:

I have had a 4ft florescent fixture over my loading bench for over 30 years and have not had any problems related to it with the two digital scales that I have owned. There is about 4-1/2 feet between it and the bench top.

The fixture started life having a T-12 ballast and I converted it to T-8 electronic when they came out. I will eventually convert over to LED. So far I'm not really an LED fan.

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I am the opposite; we replaced EVERY lamp in every fixture with LED. Lighter, less heat, longer lifespan and a lower electric bill

Bill681911 said:

You have a serious problem there Bill. My advice would be to get another pan for your 10/10 and never look back. - 1066

I have a replacement pan from rcbs for my 10-10 but it is too light to zero. I am asking Rcbs if they can re-calibrate and do a tune up on my old 10-10

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Unfortunately I don't think RCBS will be interested in doing anything with your scale. As Chuck says - It's a simple matter to rebalance your scale - Any replacement pan will need the beam rebalanced unless you are just lucky enough to get one that will zero out using the level adjuster.
Just set you scale on a level surface and adjust the level adjuster about half way - put you light pan in place and slowly add weight to the pan - small clippings from the skirt of an airgun pellet work well or clippings of electrical solder. Once enough weight has been added to zero the scale, remove the pan, unscrew the Phillips screw that holds the weight box together, then tip the contents of the pan into the weight box, then re-assemble. - Job done, scale should now work as well as it ever did. This will not effect the calibration or accuracy of the scale in any way.

Thomasss said:

Get LED bulbs that do not use a ballast to operate. Fixtures with non replaceable bulbs are the cheapest and last 5 years or more. Or you can get bulbs that don't need a ballast, but they are $20 to $30 apiece. Then follow their instruction on how to by-pass the ballast. 6) Find a starving electrical student and have them do it for you.

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You can order Ballast Free LED's from 1000bulbs.com or get them from Home Depot or Lowes. You may have to purchase shunted sockets too. When I was working I Installed a lot of 4 ft LED's that cost less than $10@. You need to watch the shipping cost if you order online.

Bill681911 said:

I have been having a problem with several electronic scales. I talked to my gunsmith and he told me that fluorescent lighting near the scale might be the problem ( I have a fluorescent lighting.panel directly above my reloading table) I am getting large variations in readings. I am setting up to load 9mm @ 4.4 "WW231" but I get erratic readings ( 5.7gr being the highest)
need less to say reloading in on hold untill I work this problem out to get consistent scale readings.

Question; if I remove the fluorescent tubes and replace them with LED lighting tubes - will this resolve the problem??.
I am considering going to an RCBS 505. but I have read that fluorescent lighting causes problems with this as well

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I added LED hanging fixtures above my bench, and don't turn on the flourescent fixture when I am using the electronic scale; that solved my drift issue.

Also keep any wifi device away, even cell phones. My amazin fire stick was the worst I think. Depending on the sensitivity of the scale, fans or AC vents can cause drift too.

dcloco said:

Have you removed your cell phone from the immediate area? The constant TX/RX signals from your cell phone IS the culprit or adding to the problem, significantly.

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I tested this, true. If I keep my phone 10 feet away, it doesn't interfere.