After a long time searching and waiting, Unshaved Webley Mark VI!

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Bill Raby said:
Anderson-Wheeler makes a very nice replica. 7 shot, 357 magnum. I am really temped to get one but it is expensive.
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I saw that Anderson-Wheeler a few years ago when it debuted at Shot Show. I was pretty exited until I saw the caliber and price tag. Not much of a fan of 357 Mag and though a beautifully crafter revolver the price was a bit over the top for me.

There was another project that supposedly had Webley and Scott agreeing they would made another batch of 455 Webley Mark VI revolvers from the original prints back in 2017/18 IIRC. They were looking for at least a thousand people to put up $100 to start the project. I signed up for it but was never contacted for payment and the project seems to have fizzle.

Onty said:
Here is Webley .455 hollow base mold, Cramer style https://www.mp-molds.com/product/455-webley-mk2-hollow-base-4-cavity-mold/

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And here is the tool to squeeze rim on 45 Cowboy Special or trimmed 45 Schofield brass. Use strong machine vise or hydraulic press.

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I have not brought myself to start casting yet. But Matt's Bullets uses that same or a very similar mold and sells a copy of the .455 Mk II hollow base bullet. I already buy Matt's .361 diameter 200 gr copy of the Mk 1 38/200 bullet for use in my Webley Mark IV.

455 Webley MkII brass is readily available from Star Line, so I won't have to modify existing brass, thankfully. The On Target ammo I shot this weekend was loaded in Star Line bras so once I have shot all this up I will have 200 good pieces of brass. Right now I need to find a set of dies that are not $200+ Redding dies. I am not sure I will load enough to justify the Redding dies.
 
Could be wrong but you might be able to make cases out of once fired 45 colt or S&W by trimming back to the right case length.

Don't if cylinder is bored thru at .476 or .455 or if cylinder is long enough to accomodate the S&W round.

Know it's too short to take the 45 colt
 
mcb said:
There was another project that supposedly had Webley and Scott agreeing they would made another batch of 455 Webley Mark VI revolvers from the original prints back in 2017/18 IIRC. They were looking for at least a thousand people to put up $100 to start the project. I signed up for it but was never contacted for payment and the project seems to have fizzle.
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If they are going to make Mk VI, I would put down $200-300 in a heart bit. Unfortunately, there is such anti handgun hysteria in Great Britain that I wouldn't be surprised if they backed off just to avoid all (quite possible) hassle.

mcb said:
455 Webley MkII brass is readily available from Star Line, so I won't have to modify existing brass, thankfully. The On Target ammo I shot this weekend was loaded in Star Line bras so once I have shot all this up I will have 200 good pieces of brass. Right now I need to find a set of dies that are not $200+ Redding dies. I am not sure I will load enough to justify the Redding dies.
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I just never liked short Mk II brass. I even tried to organize group buy on another forum for 455 Mk I brass, before Starline started making Mk II, but a dealer who works with them couldn't convince them at that time.

Sarge7402 said:
Could be wrong but you might be able to make cases out of once fired 45 colt or S&W by trimming back to the right case length.

Don't if cylinder is bored thru at .476 or .455 or if cylinder is long enough to accommodate the S&W round.

Know it's too short to take the 45 colt
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I made Mk I brass from 45 Colt, and apart from shortening it, inside reaming was required also. If I remembered correctly, no inside reaming was required when using 45 Schofield brass.

Also, I tried and, at least in my Webley Mk VI, brass could be as long as 1.100" https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/45-schofield-loads-for-webley-mk-vi.24147/

As far as I know, Webley Mk VI, and earlier Mk V and Mk IV, were never been available in 455/476, just WG, RIC and possible same other earlier models like Wilkinson. I asked about chamber dimensions on 455/476 WG, and was told that WG will take full length 45 Colt case https://www.gunboards.com/threads/webley-455-476-chamber-dimensions.1041447/#post-9301903 . As for ejection, WG has enough long stroke to clear 45 Schofield, but not 45 Colt.
 
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Very very nice. I keep looking for a 38-200 gun and finding other things to spend money on first. The .455 guns are very rare around here and I honestly have only ever seen 1. I did get a chance to sling lead with it though, and it was fun. I simply prefer the 38-200 because I already reload for a few 38sw revolvers.
 
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WestKentucky said:
Very very nice. I keep looking for a 38-200 gun and finding other things to spend money on first. The .455 guns are very rare around here and I honestly have only ever seen 1. I did get a chance to sling lead with it though, and it was fun. I simply prefer the 38-200 because I already reload for a few 38sw revolvers.
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If you want 38-200 revolver, look also for Enfield No 2 Mk I*. I would stick with those made before WW II. IMO, they are better made guns than Webley Mk IV 38-200 so called "WAR FINISH".

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I would love to get one like this in a very nice shape.

Also, be aware that there that there is so called "TANKER MODEL" Enfield No 2 Mk I**.

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No personal experience, but I was told by well informed British gentleman to stay away from revolvers made by "Albion Motors". Apparently, they are quite poorly made.
 
Onty said:
If you want 38-200 revolver, look also for Enfield No 2 Mk I*. I would stick with those made before WW II. IMO, they are better made guns than Webley Mk IV 38-200 so called "WAR FINISH".

View attachment 995151

I would love to get one like this in a very nice shape.

Also, be aware that there that there is so called "TANKER MODEL" Enfield No 2 Mk I**.

View attachment 995152

No personal experience, but I was told by well informed British gentleman to stay away from revolvers made by "Albion Motors". Apparently, they are quite poorly made.
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My first top-break revolver was an Iver Johnson in 38 S&W. My second top-break revolver was a Webley Mark IV in 38-200. It was won/bought from an online auction. It was made in the 1980's in a final commemorative batch before Webley and Scott stop production of revolvers.

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Here it is, the ammo in the second image is my own hand loads replicating the 30-200 Mk I load using Matt's Bullets 200 gr hemispherical RN bullets sized correctly to .361.
 
mcb said:
My first top-break revolver was an Iver Johnson in 38 S&W. My second top-break revolver was a Webley Mark IV in 38-200. It was won/bought from an online auction. It was made in the 1980's in a final commemorative batch before Webley and Scott stop production of revolvers..
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Congratulation on such beautiful revolver. Those COMMERCIAL Webley revolvers are so nicely done. I am still kicking myself for passing one Mk IV Target in 22LR. I could get it for less than half of market price. At that time I didn't have a clue how rare they are, and pricey..

Also, a BIG mistake passing 455 Enfield Mk VI, made in 1920-ties. Apparently, it was on a par with commercially made Webley Mk VI.
 
A couple years ago I was on the hunt for a Webley MK VI, but I was concerned with finding ammo for her. In the end I found a shaven and unshaven model by a vendor at a local gun show. In the end I bought the shaved model and worked to come up with a 45 Auto Rim load that works great with it. Shortly there after I found a site called Military Shooters, which sold old military ammunition. They had Fiocchi 262gr .455 Webley ammo available. Kicked myself that I didn't go with the unshaven model at that point. Overall I'm happy with the model I have now and will shoot it for years to come. Goes nicely with my Webley Mk IV in 38/200.

CJJmdDr.jpg
 
I have a commercial Webley Mk.V with the six inch barrel, in .455 Mk.II. I cast a lot of bullets for my old British rifles &, even though I have a mold for the .455, I chose to buy bullets for the Webley from Bear Creek Supply in Waterford, CA. They do a 260gn HBRN bullet that shoots as well, or better, than any other bullet I've put through the various Webleys I've owned over the years, & at $45 for 400 (plus free shipping with orders over $130) I really can't justify casting them anyway! 455 Webley | Bear Creek Supply (bearcreeksupplybullets.com)

12 shots @ 25yds Rested with Fiocchi ammo.JPG
 
bonza said:
I have a commercial Webley Mk.V with the six inch barrel, in .455 Mk.II. I cast a lot of bullets for my old British rifles &, even though I have a mold for the .455, I chose to buy bullets for the Webley from Bear Creek Supply in Waterford, CA. They do a 260gn HBRN bullet that shoots as well, or better, than any other bullet I've put through the various Webleys I've owned over the years, & at $45 for 400 (plus free shipping with orders over $130) I really can't justify casting them anyway! 455 Webley | Bear Creek Supply (bearcreeksupplybullets.com)
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Thanks! I am going to try a very similar bullet from Matt's Bullets but its always good to have a back up source for bullets. I will keep them in mind for my next order.
 
Some time ago I got a case of 2000 45 Colt bulk bullets from Remington, the hairy looking lubed ones with a slightly hollow base. If you stumble across them, they shoot well in the Webley as well as Colts and auto-rims.
 
I know you are right but they have been scarce the last coupla years............

swg1 said:
Some time ago I got a case of 2000 45 Colt bulk bullets from Remington, the hairy looking lubed ones with a slightly hollow base. If you stumble across them, they shoot well in the Webley as well as Colts and auto-rims.
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ddixie884 said:
I know you are right but they have been scarce the last coupla years............
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Yes, I wanted to pick up some more and a little over a year ago, maybe 18mo I contacted Remington and they said they only had them in the 100 packs, the cases (actually of a 1000, the 38's I have come in 2k cases) weren't available and then covid and bankruptcy so who knows.
 
bonza said:
I have a commercial Webley Mk.V with the six inch barrel, in .455 Mk.II. I cast a lot of bullets for my old British rifles &, even though I have a mold for the .455, I chose to buy bullets for the Webley from Bear Creek Supply in Waterford, CA. They do a 260gn HBRN bullet that shoots as well, or better, than any other bullet I've put through the various Webleys I've owned over the years, & at $45 for 400 (plus free shipping with orders over $130) I really can't justify casting them anyway! 455 Webley | Bear Creek Supply (bearcreeksupplybullets.com)

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You have a gem! I never handled Mk V, but I did Webley WG with bird head grip, similar to that on Mk V:

ccIVCd8.jpg

IMHO, there is no DA revolver with better ergonomics and handling than this bird head grip Webley WG. I like later generations Webley (Mk V and VI) but WG is the king.
 
mcb said:
So I have always had a thing for double-action top-break revolvers and the Webley revolvers have always been my favorite of the lot. My first top break was an old Iver Johnson Safety-Automatic (second model). A bit later I got my first Webley one of the 100th anniversary Webley Mark IV in 38-200 but the 455 Webley was always a revolver that escaped my search. Proper revolver cartridges should be short and fat! :)

About a week ago a local gun shop shared a nice S&W 1917 on their Facebook page and I went into have a look. It was a post WWII commercial revolver but was very tempting given the price. But sitting next to it in the display case was a S&W triple lock in 455 Webley and it was in spectacular shape. It was even more tempting but it also sparked a conversation on 455 Webley with the salesman and after some conversation he told me he had a Webley Mark VI in the back waiting for the time to expire so they could sell it (used guns have to be held by pawn and gun shops in Alabama for some specified time IIRC). He kindly let me look at it early and even more kindly after examining it allowed me to have first dibs on it. I picked it up this morning!

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The finish has taking on the brown patina of an old gun, there is some spots of rust but given the age the condition is pretty good.
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If I have read the marking right this gun the '16 on the top strap means it was put into service in 1916 making it 104 years old. All the serial numbers match on upper and lower frame and cylinder.
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Most importantly the cylinder has not been shaved for 45 ACP. You can still see the stampings on the face of the cylinder. So it has not been abused and the hinge and latch are tight!
View attachment 991127
The bore is not perfect but for 104 years old in excellent condition.

I have four boxes of ammo ordered for it. Grafs and Sons has contracted On Target to load a 455 Webley using a proper .455 diameter polymer coated bullet in Star-Line brass. This will hold me until I can find a set of dies and give me a good starting batch of good brass. Once I get some dies I will order some Mk II bullets from Matt's bullets. He is making a faithful copy of the Mk II hollow based bullet.

I think I can tweak some Safariland Comp I 44-Mag speed-loaders to work with the Webley or maybe 3D print a clone of a Speed Beez type loader sized for 455 Webley.

What I need now is a good sturdy belt holster. My intention is to start carrying this revolver as my woods/UTV/tractor revolver. So if you know anyone that is making a good belt holster for Webley Mark VI I would love to hear about them. Thanks!
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Congratulations, guns like that just scream history from a bygone age. Wouldn't it be interesting if that Webley could talk what stories she could tell.
A good part of my love for guns is the time period in history they represent.
Treasure her like a beautiful woman.
 
bonza said:
I have a commercial Webley Mk.V with the six inch barrel, in .455 Mk.II. I cast a lot of bullets for my old British rifles &, even though I have a mold for the .455, I chose to buy bullets for the Webley from Bear Creek Supply in Waterford, CA. They do a 260gn HBRN bullet that shoots as well, or better, than any other bullet I've put through the various Webleys I've owned over the years, & at $45 for 400 (plus free shipping with orders over $130) I really can't justify casting them anyway! 455 Webley | Bear Creek Supply (bearcreeksupplybullets.com)

View attachment 996618
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Boy, that is the Army service Webley I would want if I had a choice, bonza. Thanks for putting up a good picture of it. (I like the Keillor quote too.)
 
ddixie884 said:
The only good thing about a shaved Webley or .455 Colt or S&W is the excellent Star-Line .45 AR brass can be used to make a right proper revolver round for it.........
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I would kindly disagree. I would have been almost as pleased with a shaved Webley if it had been is similar tight mechanical condition. I am a big fan of moonclips and If I had found a shaved Webley I would be loading light loads in 45 ACP cased so I could use some of my many moonclips for my S&W 625 in the shaved Webley.
 
mcb said:
I would kindly disagree. I would have been almost as pleased with a shaved Webley if it had been is similar tight mechanical condition. I am a big fan of moonclips and If I had found a shaved Webley I would be loading light loads in 45 ACP cased so I could use some of my many moonclips for my S&W 625 in the shaved Webley.
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I have a shaved Mark I I'll gladly trade. :)

Speaking of... if you still haven't found a set of dies by the time your bullets and other supplies show up, PM me. I have a 3-die Lee set in .455 Webley I use to make .455/.45AR and .455/.45ACP BP and light smokeless loads for my shaved Webley. I will lend them to you until you can get your own dies squared away or enough ammo loaded to last a lifetime - that is, if Lee's are okay for your reloading setup.
 
mcb said:
I would kindly disagree. I would have been almost as pleased with a shaved Webley if it had been is similar tight mechanical condition. I am a big fan of moonclips and If I had found a shaved Webley I would be loading light loads in 45 ACP cased so I could use some of my many moonclips for my S&W 625 in the shaved Webley.
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I just realized, here we are 47 posts into a discussion of Webleys and not one picture of a moonclip has been posted! :eek::what:

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mcb said:
I would kindly disagree. I would have been almost as pleased with a shaved Webley if it had been is similar tight mechanical condition. I am a big fan of moonclips and If I had found a shaved Webley I would be loading light loads in 45 ACP cased so I could use some of my many moonclips for my S&W 625 in the shaved Webley.
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My .2 cents; if I have shaved Webley, I would use 45 AR brass only. Just to avoid mix up between 45 ACP lighter and standard loads.

BTW, somebody mentioned that he sent Webley cylinder to open chambers on .4525" dia, so standard solid base base bullets could be used. Apparently, groups shrunk considerably. All .455" Webleys have undersized chambers, something like .447"-.450" dia. This was done in order to bump pressure because original load Mk I was made using black powder. That is the reason why standard .455" Webley bullets are hollow base, so they could expand and grab the rifling when exit cylinder.
 
Onty said:
My .2 cents; if I have shaved Webley, I would use 45 AR brass only. Just to avoid mix up between 45 ACP lighter and standard loads.
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Here's the fly in that ointment: I have both a shaved Webley and a Smith & Wesson Model of 1917. I also have several self-loading .45ACP pistols. The Webley is a Mark I - made for black powder, proofed for the Mk.I "Cordite" 265gr. load, which is smokeless - but the Mk. I were also pulled from service before the stronger Mk. VI revolver was introduced so I only load BP (18gr. FFFg) or very low-P smokeless (3.5gr. Bullseye, which has been pressure tested at under 11.8kpsi, well under the operating pressure for the Mark VI smokeless round at 13.2kpsi) under the "proper" 265gr. LRN bullet (I have used GT Bullets or Reed's but Matt's Bullets are good, too). CoTW recommends 5.0gr. of Unique for older Webleys, BTW. About the same max. pressure as my 3.5gr. of Bullseye but the Bullseye load is a little better in my gun. YMMV.

The Smith is proofed for military ACP Ball ammunition. Anything made for a 1911A1 and "safe" in that pistol is fair game for the Smith as well - and I'm not limited bullets for the magazine-fed, rim-spacing, taper-crimped loads, either. For the Smith I use some Sierra 240gr. SJHC loaded to over 1000fps that will curl your nose hairs. I load those in AR cases so I can load/unload singly if I want to and mix/match with shot or lighter loads, on the fly. I have speed-loaders fit for those rounds, too. I do use AR and ACP cases for both of the revolvers, plus ACP for my various self-loading pistols. I also have plenty of moon-clips holding 6, 3, or 2 rounds each. Which is used depends on the application. That's strictly a personal preference.

Dropping a full-power +P S&W loaded cartridge into the Webley would be very bad for that gun. I'm fairly certain it would hold together - they're strong guns! - but it would not be good. Putting a FFFg through a 1911A1 would be annoying but not harmful - doesn't mean I'm eager to try it. Ditto for dropping a target load tuned to my AO 1911A1 into the Smith - no harm, but I know from experience my preferred 185gr. Noslers don't like the 1917, but I'm only wasting a $1 bullet, not doing damage.

So how would you differentiate self-loading ammo from revolver ammo that's proofed to Ball spec's from revolver ammo that's BP or equivalent? It's an interesting hypothetical. Fly, meet ointment. ;)
 
I use nickel cases some times to differentiate from "other loads" or use a specific bullet per load. I also sort, label and package carefully along with records. Often I'll write on the primer to indicate a load as below. These are test loads.

loads.jpg
 
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