Webley Mk. VI caliber conversion

[Lizzie Borden]

I have a circa WW I Webley Mk. VI that was given to me because it was locked up with rust. I cleaned off the rust (it took a year of soaking in Marvel Mystery Oil) and I'm wondering how to tell if the cylinder has been converted from the original .455 Webley to .45 ACP.

The revolver came with full- and half-moon clips, but that really doesn't prove anything.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I have a circa WW I Webley Mk. VI that was given to me because it was locked up with rust. I cleaned off the rust (it took a year of soaking in Marvel Mystery Oil) and I'm wondering how to tell if the cylinder has been converted from the original .455 Webley to .45 ACP.

The revolver came with full- and half-moon clips, but that really doesn't prove anything.

The MK.VI should have the serial number on the cylinder near the back edge. If the numbers are intact vertically the cylinder is likely unmodified from original. There’s other ways to tell if the rusting makes the cylinder serial numbers difficult to make out. The fastest way would be to post a picture of the side of the gun showing the cylinder and recoil shield with the gun closed and I or another forum member who’s familiar could probably tell you just by looking at it.

A picture like this but focused a little more rearward would be good enough.

FYI mine is shaved for .45ACP but in this picture it has a steel adapter plate installed to allow the gun to fire .455 Webley.

Edited to add: If you look very closely at my pic just underneath the “MK.VI” stamp on the top strap you can just barely see the serial number on the cylinder and how the bottom of the numbers are cut off indicating the cylinder was cut from the back.

 

[mcb]

@RevolvingGarbage has it. If is has been shaved for 45 ACP the serial number on the cylinder will be missing the very bottom edge of the numbers. The Moonclips are also a good indication it was converted as there was never a moonclip made for 455 Webley. Most of the original 455 Webley ammo due to the way the cases were made did not even have the groove for moonclips.


My unshaved Mark VI. You can clearly see a nice margin under the serial number at the back of the cylinder.

 

[Slamfire]

Wish I could find an unconverted Webley cylinder, the big gap is the clue, it was converted. Probably in the late 50's and early 60's by gun dealers, such as Great Western Arms. My Webley is crudely converted, the chambering reamer must have been a used plumbing tool. The chambers are rough and the chamber mouth is almost straight.



Low cost and quick turnaround was the only consideration in the conversions. The 45 ACP cartridge is inappropriate for this pistol. Shoot enough factory and you will end up with a bent top strap. The Webley round was lower pressure, and the velocity of the 265 grain slower than what you can push a 250 in a 45 ACP. These best thing to do is reload, and I used Auto Rim cases.

I did a bit of experimenting. I found 0.454 diameter lead bullets, the 0.452 leaded badly and shot even worse. I know accuracy of these things with un messed up chambers and British ammunition was equal to match pistols today, but with the messed up chamber mouths, this thing shoots around four inches at 25 yards, and it does not cluster its shots. Without pressure gauges I have no idea what the pressures are, but I think 4.0 grs Bullseye was the best balance of velocity and accuracy.


255 LSWC (.454) 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
Jun-Aug 2002 T = ? °F

Ave Vel = 541
Std Dev = 10
ES = 42.44
Low = 522
High = 565
N = 24

Shot to point of aim 25.0 yards


255 LSWC (.454) 4.0 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 42 °F

Ave Vel = 640
Std Dev = 21
ES = 79.1
Low = 586
High = 665
N = 12

Shot to point of aim 25.0 yards



255 LSWC (.454) 4.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P Auto Rim cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 42 °F

Ave Vel = 681
Std Dev = 8
ES = 28.4
Low = 667
High = 696
N = 12
Shot to point of aim 25.0 yards better accuracy

I have to say, the British built an outstanding combat pistol. The British did not make this pistol for long range shots, they knew this was going to be used at spitting distances. Just read of their Colonial wars, facing men in chain mail and swords, or spear men in hippopotamus shields and armor. Officers were not expected to be engaging in combat, they were there to manage their men. So if they had to use their personal sidearm, it was in a very hairy situation. The type of situation that gives 80 year old survivors nightmares if they talk about it. Pistol ergonomics are great, it points naturally, the round, though pip squeak by American standards, was a decisive killer, and could be fired fast for follow up shots. This pistol is quick to load, and put a lot of round holes in square heads.

 

[Lizzie Borden]

There is a large gap between the cylinder and the recoil shield and the serial number on the rim of the cylinder has the bottom of the number cut off. I have to conclude that it has been converted.

I don't consider it safe to shoot, period. There's too much rust pitting throughout that might keep it from staying in one piece if it's fired. It's a curiosity at the point, unless I need a heavy and unwieldy club.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

It's definitely a handloading proposition, then. Never shoot full charge .45 ACP in a Webley -- Pieces will start falling off the gun.

On the other hand, Starline brass makes .45 Auto Rim cases, and they work great in a shaved Webley.

 

[Terry G]

It's definitely a handloading proposition, then. Never shoot full charge .45 ACP in a Webley -- Pieces will start falling off the gun.

On the other hand, Starline brass makes .45 Auto Rim cases, and they work great in a shaved Webley.

Second on the full charge thing. Pieces didn't start falling off but it got looser. I sold it too a man that wanted it for a wall display. No interest in shooting it. I still have a .38 S&W Webley.

 

[Rock185]

Lizzie Borden, Even if unsafe to shoot, the old Webleys are still interesting conversation pieces and wall hangers IMHO. Mine was obtained from the estate of a dear old friend a few years ago. It had been cut for .45 ACP/Auto Rim, etc., and I recall shooting the gun with him years ago. It is still a good shooter, and I take it out once in a while and enjoy shooting it with light reloads.

 

[StrawHat]

The 45 ACP operates at pressures considerably higher than the 455 was designed for. The ACP is a proof load for a 455. Not something I would recommend.

Kevin

 

[Vern Humphrey]

MAP for the .455 Webley is 13,050 psi. MAP for the .45 ACP is 21,000 psi.