Powder Substitutes

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DMW1116

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I started reloading middle of last year and have had a fair amount of success developing rifle loads for 223 and 308. 30-30 not so much but it’s a work in progress.

I bought my initial supplies while things were more readily available. They are running out now and it’s time to replace them but can’t readily find the powders I used initially.

Is there a recognized procedure for selecting new powders to replicate pet loads? I have loads using H335 (223), IMR 4064 (both calibers), and CFE 223 (308). I was thinking about Accurate 2230, IMR 3031, maybe BL(C)2.
 
Each powder is a new workup.
IMR3031 is easy to find accurate loads with.
Work up to 29.5 gr with a 150 rn in 30-30.
I have used it with good results in 223 also.
It does need to be weighed on a scale.
 
During hard times I study my manuals way more than when I can just buy what I normally use.

You’re gonna find fans for all the powders you mentioned. I’m a fan of AA2230 for 62 grain and lower weight .223 loads. But I’m gonna try BLC (2) when I get my hands on some. Auto is a fan of IMR 3031. TAC works well for the heavier bullets, for me.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Take a look at AA2520 and H335 if you can find some?

I've used both in 223, 308 AND 30 WCF and did reasonably well.

One thing I think you are wise to - each firearm will have a different preference for loads.

Hope this helps!
D
 
IMO 308 is one of those where there are a lot of good options. Unfortunately almost all of them are hard to find right now. IMR4064 is a good choice, but if you just happen to find any of the following I've used them with good results too. Ramshot TAC, Reloader 15, Varget, IMR4166, H4895, and even IMR3031.

Can't help much with the 30-30 or 223 but I know that some of those powders will work in at least 2 of the 3.
 
223 and 308 run exactly the same loads if your using the same class of bullets. If you like lite for caliber bullets great. Heavy that's fine also. Going in opposite directions makes things harder. If your really hard up you can load everything with unique.
 
H335 is one of my favorite powders right now. I have a 55 grain load for 223 I use in my 20” barreled rifle. This rifle has iron sights but the load groups about 1.5” for best groups at 100 yards with good visible targets. This load also works equally well in my 16” barreled 223. It also feeds really well through my powder measure, making production loading less tedious. If there is another powder with all these characteristics I’d love to know what it is just for the sake of flexibility in lean times. That’s the reason for the thread.

Are there analogues to these powders from other manufacturers I could try? So far the answer is a hard maybe. I’m not really surprised given the realization that each of my rifles will likely prefer a different combination. For instance, I have a 223 load using IMR 4064 that shoots extremely well in my 16” rifle, but just goes to pieces in the 20”. However IMR 4064 is flexible enough to be used in all my rifles and has produced 3 different loads in 2 calibers with accuracy well beyond my expectations. I haven’t found any in about 16 months though. IMR 3031 might work. I may have to try it.
 
kalielkslayer said:
During hard times I study my manuals way more than when I can just buy what I normally use.

You’re gonna find fans for all the powders you mentioned. I’m a fan of AA2230 for 62 grain and lower weight .223 loads. But I’m gonna try BLC (2) when I get my hands on some. Auto is a fan of IMR 3031. TAC works well for the heavier bullets, for me.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say I'm a fan. I use it as a crutch if all else fails. ;)
If you have limited options is a failsafe.
 
DMW1116 said:
Is there a recognized procedure for selecting new powders to replicate pet loads? I have loads using H335 (223), IMR 4064 (both calibers), and CFE 223 (308). I was thinking about Accurate 2230, IMR 3031, maybe BL(C)2.
Click to expand...
When things go south like this it seems people always find new loads. I figure it this way, if you can't get the powder you love then learn to love the powder you can get. OK so I paraphrased Steven Stills a little. :) Just like working up the loads you have become fond of you work up other loads the same way. Nice thing about both the .223 Remington and the .308 Winchester cartridges they allow a wide range of powders. Since I don't know what rifles you are loading for it's hard to make suggestions. Just for example when I load .308 Winchester for my AR10 or M1A I want a powder no slower than Varget but when loading for my bolt gun I use Varget and slower powders especially when using heavier bullets. Look at your rifles and look at your bullets.

Today it really is a matter of working with what you can get more than what you would like to have.

Ron
 
So as I feared and suspected, there isn’t an easy answer. Below is a list of powders I think I should keep an eye out for:

IMR 3031
IMR 4064
H335
CFE 223
AA 2230
AA 2520
BL(C) 2
Varget (though I’ve never seen it in stores even in late 2019)
Edited to add:
TAC
8208 XBR

Any of these seem like they would work well in 223 and 308 and might work in 30-30, though I’m sort of looking for Unique or similar for that one to use with my upcoming casting endeavors.
 
To me the Lee book is a good starting place. Find the propellant you are presently using and the velocity is shown. Then look at the next two choices above and below. They usualy are about the same speed and will offer similar performance. Work up a load using the propellant of your choice. It usually will perform similar to your present ammo. 4064 works well in all of them but it gives up some performance in each one . I usually have a primary and several alternate propellants that I had previously found good loads with in good times so when scarce I do not waste supplies. Think about doing that when we get over this shortage. It is another reason that reloading is so rewarding to me.
 
The answer may be to prepare before a shortage occurs, which I didn’t get to do. It’s perhaps a good idea to just start building a library now and going forward have the info available for proven loads. I have also seen large packages of powder that would last me a long time. 8 pounds of IMR 4064 or H335 would be a 2 or 3 year supply for me at my current activity.

In the end it might be time to go with what I’ve got or can easily get.
 
DMW1116 said:
So as I feared and suspected, there isn’t an easy answer. Below is a list of powders I think I should keep an eye out for:

IMR 3031
IMR 4064
H335
CFE 223
AA 2230
AA 2520
BL(C) 2
Varget (though I’ve never seen it in stores even in late 2019)
Edited to add:
TAC
8208 XBR

Any of these seem like they would work well in 223 and 308 and might work in 30-30, though I’m sort of looking for Unique or similar for that one to use with my upcoming casting endeavors.
Click to expand...
Add h4895, benchmark, and AR Comp
 
Right. I was trying to remember those and thought AR comp was Autocomp. FWIW I’m running both cartridges in their respective size MSR platforms.
 
Doing a bit more digging there are quite a few powders that will work. I’ll have to try the trick mentioned above about checking above and below the currently favored powder for alternatives.
 
I usually reference a burn rate chart to generate a short list. Then cross reference data to make sure it's there for the short list powders. Then I take a picture of the good short list and carry it with me while shopping.

Got me through the last shortage. As posted above, each powder will be a new workup. You may find some dogs, you may find some gold.
 
If you are in or near the Cleveland, Ohio area I can probably help you out with some AA2495 (.308 Winchester) and some BLC 2 (.223 Remington). I can give you a 1 Lb jug of each for lets call it $20 a Lb. I have more than I will need for likely the rest of my life. :)

Ron
 
I’m in SC but it’s almost worth the road trip. I have friends in Dayton. Its just a slight detour I’m sure.
 
There are more options than I thought now that I really look. I’ll consult my Lee loading info from the respective does and get a set together to have with me when stopping anywhere there might be powder.
 
You asked if there was a recognized procedure for substituting powders in replicating loads. The short answer is no, there is not.

The longer answer is that you can reduce your rework somewhat by researching powders that 1) have a similar powder density - fill the case the same as the old powder did or as close as possible, and 2) have a similar burn rate or as close as possible.
 
DMW1116 said:
Is there a recognized procedure for selecting new powders to replicate pet loads?
Click to expand...
- No
Ramshot X-Terminator has a similar burn rate to H335. So does Accurate 2230. Both are ball powders.
From my notes...
Bulk density:
H335: .1010
2230: .986
X-Terminator: .975
(grams/cc)

Follow-up: According to Western Powders "Ramshot X-Terminator and Accurate 2230 are the same powder used by both powder lines."
 
Last edited:
DMW1116 said:
Is there a recognized procedure for selecting new powders to replicate pet loads?
Click to expand...
I chrono all my load development so once I dial in a load I attempt to replicate velocity with a new powder. In the past it’s not been as much of an issue to have fun at the range shooting a ladder, but in these sparse times I’m wondering if it’s time to get Quickload. Assuming it has a number of powders in it’s database, I’ve been told you can theoretically compare various loads. Good luck.
 
DMW1116 said:
So as I feared and suspected, there isn’t an easy answer. Below is a list of powders I think I should keep an eye out for:

IMR 3031
IMR 4064
H335
CFE 223
AA 2230
AA 2520
BL(C) 2
Varget (though I’ve never seen it in stores even in late 2019)
Edited to add:
TAC
8208 XBR

Any of these seem like they would work well in 223 and 308 and might work in 30-30, though I’m sort of looking for Unique or similar for that one to use with my upcoming casting endeavors.
Click to expand...
Add IMR 4895 and Reloader 15 to that list. Both good powders to have on-hand for any service rifle.

The powder makers tell you which bullets they're tested for their powders. The bullet makers tell you which powders they've tested for their bullets. Lee tells you what everybody else has done, but not how or why. If you want to sub one powder for another, Lee and the bullet makers are going to be your best sources. Look at the pressure@velocity columns in the charge tables and use that as your guide - pick powders/starting charges that work with your preferred bullet, first. Then worry about working up to a specific velocity@accuracy for your rifle.

To me, load development is more fun than shooting. :)
 
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Every powder is different and requires load workup to find optimal performance for the bullet you are using. I find the burn rate chart can be helpful in finding powder that have similar performance characteristics as well as comparing the powder types of those similar powder.
 
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