M1 Carbine: Still Viable

Carbines are "viable," but there are better choices today. And there is no cost advantage either, seeing what collectible Carbines are going for.

While the 327 Magnum has more power than 30 carbine, the 30 carbine is a rimless cartridge and the 327 is rimmed. The 327, like any rimmed cartridge, will introduce some feeding issues when fed from a magazine.

The .327 doesn't have more power than the .30 Carbine. With standard factory loads they're fairly similar power-wise with the Carbine having a slight edge. But with handloads and Buffalo Bore like loads the Carbine is slightly more powerful.
I really believe bullet selection is better in .308" than .31". But in the end, they're so close it's probably a matter of choosing between a semi auto and a lever gun.

35W

I almost feel like there is an opportunity there for Ruger to start making them. I bet they’d be more popular than the mini14/30

daniel craig said:

I almost feel like there is an opportunity there for Ruger to start making them. I bet they’d be more popular than the mini14/30

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M1 Carbines are already being made by 2 or 3 commercial companies. Not sure there's room for another.

35W

with the rising popularity of body armor, the .30 carbine along with most pcc's became obsolete, imo.

silicosys4 said:

with the rising popularity of body armor, the .30 carbine along with most pcc's became obsolete, imo.

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Yup - an excellent argument for a real rifle round. The M1 carbine is more expensive, less reliable, and less effective than the obvious alternatives. Maybe in some world that's "viable" but I'll pass.

daniel craig said:

I bet they’d be more popular than the mini14/30

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If it had the lackluster accuracy of the mini 14/30?

I agree though a decent copy might sell and ruger makes a fine overweight gun. The M1 carbine would be perfect for them.

I love the M1. I despise the AR. But the AR is just better for what it's used for. I see absolutely no advantage the m1 carbine has over it now. I just prefer wood and steel. Over plastic and aluminum.

But the m1 carbine is a classic. It can Certainly work fine. Dads winchester is his main gun.

crestoncowboy said:

If it had the lackluster accuracy of the mini 14/30?

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Well considering the Fulton match grade Carbines have a 3 MOA guarantee that might be an upgrade.

I wouldn't feel a bit bad if that was my only home defense option, but an AR is superior in every objective category. It doesn't mean the Carbine is bad, though.

mavracer said:

Well considering the Fulton match grade Carbines have a 3 MOA guarantee that might be an upgrade.

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Lol. No joking. Thats not stellar. I don't know that I've seen a mini 14 that would best 3 MOA though. Not consistently.

And i know for sure that the two mini 30 ive had in my shop wouldn't come close with the trashy steel cased ammo they were using.

Chuck R. said:

The only issue I'd have with using one for HD is a suitable white light mounting system, and finding the right ammo to reduce possible over penetration. I've seen what .30 FMJ can do to AR500 tgts (unfortunately) and I'm pretty sure even soft-point ammo is going to go through some dry-wall when compared to 5.56 in a suitable HD loading.

Other than that, they generally run well enough, and the cartridge is effective.

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Ultimak makes a rail for them that would allow a light and a red dot. That would bring them a bit more current.

Im not to worried about overpenetration, and in fact, Id rather have it. Under penetration on the other hand might be an issue in some instances. Thats the main reason I don't use a pistol caliber long gun for that use anymore.

I had a couple of Mini's. The skinny barrel model needed a ridiculous amount of work and an appendage clamped to the barrel to be able to shoot so-so. Traded it for a later model with the tapered barrel and it was better, but too heavy for a "handy" rifle.

My two commercial M1's and one of my USGI models will group under 3" @ 100 and under 6" at 200. The Iver Johnson has done 10 consecutive shots in a little under 6" and recently a 5 shot group a little under 5", both at 200...that with the coarse sights. Plenty good for a PDW.

What's "best" sometimes comes down to personal preference. I own three AR's but just generally don't care for them at all, especially for a PDW where on doesn't need to shoot gnats in the ass at 300 yds. As such I handle a Carbine better and am just generally more comfortable with them. If I were limited to one long gun would it be a Carbine, nope.

35W

Grandad liked his M1 when he was "over there" in Korea, but mentioned once that "they weren't so good in the winter time". You can draw your own conclusions for the meaning of that statement. I had a Plainfield for a little while and didn't really care for it; 30 Carbine isn't really a deer hunting round though, so I don't know what I expected. As someone said, yes the M1 is still viable. But for my use, I'll take a 30-30!

Mac

12Bravo20 said:

While the 327 Magnum has more power than 30 carbine, the 30 carbine is a rimless cartridge and the 327 is rimmed. The 327, like any rimmed cartridge, will introduce some feeding issues when fed from a magazine.

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Rotary magazine would take care of that.

I really believe bullet selection is better in .308" than .31"

Well one cannot go heavier than 110/115 for .308 in the carbine.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I was wondering if any of you M1 aficionados might be able to tell me what this is worth.
http://imgur.com/a/Gbl4Bmr
Was cleaning out my gun stuff and came across this bandolier of .30 cal m1 carbine ammo on stripper clips. It's marked LC 52 and doesnt appear to be the chinese knockoff stuff.

Lyman has been making a mold that drops a 130 gr. bullet for the .30 Carbine, and providing data for it, for close to 50 years now, and Accurate/Western powders has data for it too- .30 Carbine Data

Buffalo Bore makes available a 125 gr. load for the Carbine too, and they even have a heavy load for the .327 Federal.

This is a lineup of the three bullets I load in my Carbine-



(L-R) 118 gr. 110 gr. 125 gr.

35W

My dad was issued a carbine as part of a mortar crew in Korea. He had nothing good to say about them and I got the impression his opinion was based on firsthand experience.

This is a post-war, Iver Johnson, 30 carbine. I cast and powder coat for my reloads. I have to say, it runs nearly flawlessly, and has very good accuracy. No complaints from me!







Due to its reliability in cycling and its pistol cartridge, this thing would make a superb home defense weapon.

C-grunt said:

They are great guns. The only reservation I have is that it is harder to mount a light to one. I know it can be done with aftermarket stocks.

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Be interesting if someone in the aftermarket could make a light mount that fits the bayonet mounts for carbines that have them.

Elkins45 said:

My dad was issued a carbine as part of a mortar crew in Korea. He had nothing good to say about them and I got the impression his opinion was based on firsthand experience.

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I think I've heard both bad and good said about many firearms the military has used. My father once opined that Thompson SMGs would make pretty good boat anchors.

P5 Guy said:

M1 Carbine fires a 110 grain FMJ bullet at 1900FPS for an impact energy of 965 ft-lb
The 327 Federal Magnum launches a 115 grain Gold Dot at 1880FPS.
I see two advantages to a pistol caliber carbine (really the M1 Carbine is a stretch but a pistol caliber, sort of) in 327Federal Magnum has a better assortment of bullet weights and a manually operated carbine (lever or pump) for use in places that have a problem with "military grade weapons".
Now if the fine folks at Strum-Ruger would chamber a semi-auto carbine in 327Federal Magnum all the bases would get covered.

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Actually, P5 Guy makes a good point. If the 327 (.312") is roughly the same diameter as a 30 carbine (.308) and the Carbine velocities are close to the same (1990 fps & 967 fpe). I'm using the data from Midway USA for a 110 gr JSP (yep, soft point).
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001870433?pid=185288
(Btw, this ammo is listed as available right now.)
And if we compare that to some .327 ballistics tables.

https://gunnewsdaily.com/327-federal-magnum/

So let's use the .327 mag 115 grain bullet at 1880 fps that P5 Guy used since we'll gain velocity with a longer barrel. What I'm really seeing is the 30 Carbine as a ballistic twin of the 327 Federal.
So my question becomes, How can a six shot revolver loaded with 327 Federal rounds be touted as a great self defense option (I've read that in many gun rags and forums) but the lowly 30 Carbine ballistic twin with a 15 or 30 round mag, loaded with soft points is so yesterday (I'm not picking on P5 Guy but I have heard people say that when talk of the 30 Carbine comes up). And yes, the 327 has a better selection of bullets and loadings... Imagine what manufacturers could do with the 30 carbine if they just put a little more effort into it.
So for HD or a knock about ranch rifle, why not? Better choices? With a fat enough wallet there's always better choices. But would it work in a pinch? Absolutely, it would!
So "Rock On" 30 Carbine users, if it's reliable, use it.

The M1 Carbine is an extremely effective home defense weapon and if you have one for that purpose there's little or no need to replace it with an AR-15 (if you except ammunition pricing and availability). But on the flip side, if someone is looking to purchase a home defense weapon, absolutely no one should be recommending an M1 Carbine in 2021.

dza said:

what this is worth.

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Just the ammo is likely worth 70-75¢ per round.
Militaria collector might offer more for the strippers and the bandolier (the strippers, individually, are about $2.50 each; the bandolier about $5-10. All matching, ammo lot number on the bandolier, worth maybe $20 more as a collectable.
Your Mileage May Vary

Now, if you had the matching metal ammo can, marked to match, that would be worth $20-25 all by its lonesome.

These Israelis might be private security, based on info seen elsewhere. No idea when this photo was taken, or whether these gents
(and/or people with carbines in other photos) still carry M-1 Carbines.

They are much easier to aim than any handgun-allegedly one reason they were issued to so many people in WW2 serving in non-combat jobs.

P5 guy: My quotes aren't working, and you suggested that Ruger build a carbine in 357 Fed. Mag.
Isn't the old Ruger 44 supposed to be effective against both People and Deer at typical (US) civilian self-defense distances, if not further?

Here is the 44 above an M-1 Carbine. I got to shoot whoever's 44 when age 15 or so, but the gun bug didn't "bite" until age 52.