At Academy Last Night

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Mike J

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So I went to Academy last night looking for jeans. It has been getting hard to find the ones I like in my size lately. So I went there with the family.. They went one way & I went the other. I found a pair of jeans my size, tried them on & decided to go see what ammunition they had in stock. While looking at ammo I made a bit of small talk with a fellow that was open carrying.

I noticed the FN logo on the grip of his pistol. Asked if it was FN. Noticed the hammer & asked if it was DA/SA. Then I noticed the hammer was back. I asked you carrying cocked & locked (was actually wondering if that were possible with that pistol. I have never owned or handled one of them). Then I saw the safety off. I said you're carrying cocked & unlocked. He said that the chamber was empty the hammer was cocked & the safety was off to make the slide easier to rack. Blew my mind.

I asked about decocking. He responded that the first DA trigger pull was very long & heavy. I said I know that you just have to learn two trigger pulls. Told him I used to carry a DA/SA & for a long time I spent 5 minutes a night on dry fire practice with a dime balanced on the front sight to learn the DA trigger. He looked a little befuddled & embarrassed & I backed off as I felt I was overstepping the bounds of politeness. I went back to commenting on the ammo available, prices, etc. & left.

After leaving it occurred to me I should have asked what he would do if he didn't have both hands free during an encounter. I should have also relayed my own experience that carrying a DA/SA safety off doesn't necessarily mean the safety will be off when you reach for the gun (they can get bumped on). As I was leaving he told me the only reason he carries that gun is because it is his only .45 with 15 round capacity. I said something about everyone has their caliber preferences & left.

Now I feel like I should have said more. I mean we should either learn the manual of arms necessary or carry a different weapon. If given a choice between proficiency & higher capacity I believe proficiency to be more important. So I feel like a blew a chance to be helpful.

Does anyone have any suggestions about how I could have handled this better. I don't want to slam the guy just figure out how to encourage someone to educate themselves without insulting them.
 
It's hard to think on the spot sometimes. I had a guy who said he can throw a knife and hit someone faster than they can draw and shoot. It just came out of the blue at walmart when i was buying ammo. I don't think he noticed if i was carrying. The guys a felon. Convicted drug dealer. I was thinking to myself. Yeah you have a knife because you cant own a gun. But i kept my cool. And said cool. We all have what we like for defense. I have not seen him around lately. Maybe he got busted again.
 
That is a tough one. There are too many unknowns on both ends. You don’t know his history, he doesn’t know yours.

I think delivery is sooo important. If handled correctly, you could have done him a huge favor and made a friend.

On the other hand, I’ve seen so many gun shop strays ( the old guys that hang out at gun shops for hours per day) that run newbies off with their gruff talk and know it all attitude.

Then there’s the mall ninjas- sigh….

Bottom line, you were there, we weren’t.

Hopefully you gave him food for thought which other guys that he runs into can build upon.
 
I don't talk to strangers about gun or carry choices, and many (if not most) of the people I see open carrying are not people I want to get into a conversation with. He sounds like he knows nothing about guns.

A few years ago, there was a guy on another forum berating those who carry with a safety. He went through the whole "they'll get you killed" nonsense. He said he carried his Beretta PX4 Compact safety off and hammer back in single action, because his instructor, a former US Marine, told him it was just as safe to carry that way as it was a Glock.
 
I had an old timer once comment "your hammers back" on my 1911. I replied "the safeties on". He looked startled.

As per your conversation, it's hard to say. Maybe if you had said you'd like to try the gun sometime and could have gotten to the range together, you could have made a difference.

Atleast he was carrying safely. I met a guy that had a 1911 cocked. It had the safety off. It was an ambi safety so I could tell. I said "your safety's off". He felt of the gun briefly and said "hmm, well it's got a grip safety". He did not engage the thumb safety.
Talk about uncomfortable to be around.
 
I have found that most people that open carry, do so more for show then for protection. This will very depending on what area you live in.
Not long ago I was in line at Walmart. As I got in line to check out, I noticed the guy in front of me had a FNS in a outside the waistband holster, at the small of his back. Now this guy was in his sixties, by his looks and in not so good of health. He was using a cane to get around and overweight. I asked if it was wise to open carry that way, because someone could disarm him. His reply was, just let someone try and I’ll show them.
My first thought was to grab his gun and kick him in the back of the knee, just to show him how foolish he was, but then that would not have gone over well in the checkout line at Walmart. I just didn’t reply. Sometimes avoiding a conversation with someone who thinks he knows what he’s doing is best.
I’m getting close to 60, myself, and realize that I’m not in as good of shape as I was in my 30s and 40s. I know my limitations. I don’t open carry.
 
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Unless my safety or the safety of others was compromised I wouldn't say anything. I've only engaged in gun talk with one open carrier. He had a new Python (when they just came out) and I couldn't help myself.
 
It would have felt like some total yokel meeting you at the local sheriff’s office while you were applying for your firearm permit, both presuming and confidently asking if you were a first - time firearm owner.
 
I think your intentions were good, and can appreciate where you were going. In my experience, most people (even those that ask) are looking for validation and not insight. There are exceptions, of course.

My .02…. I honestly don’t get into gun talk with people I don’t know, and only get into it with people I do know that ask. Even then I half expect them to not really listen.

THR is a little different. I’ve seen a lot of people here genuinely open to asking/learning and not merely validation. Which is nice, and I’ve benefited from the collective knowledge.
 
The OP makes me think how I would react if someone started giving me advice about how I carry. Say if somehow a cover garment exposed my gun or if it printed. I work hard to conceal really well so it would probably never happen and I wouldn’t want anybody’s advice. I would take at least some offense to any advice.

ps. I think open carry is a terrible idea but I would not say anything to someone who is.
 
Unless someone is being blatantly unsafe or violating local laws, why do you care about how they are carrying? Be happy they are carrying, even if it is open. If you believe that a bad guy will shoot them first, then that is to your advantage. If they are doing it to make a political statement, that is their business (and in my opinion, good for them).

I would have asked him about the pistol, what kind of action, etc. When he said he was carrying with an empty chamber, then I might have asked about what happens if you don’t have both hands free?
 
GunnyUSMC said:
I have found that most people that open carry, do s more for show then for protection. This will very depending on what area you live in.
Not long ago I was in line at Walmart. As I got in line to check out, I noticed the guy in front of me had a FNS in a outside the waistband holster, at the small of his back. Now this guy was in his sixties, by his looks and in not so good of health. He was using a cane to get around and overweight. I asked if it was wise to open carry that way, because someone could disarm him. His reply was, just let someone try and I’ll show them.
My first thought was to grab his gun and kick him in the back of the knee, just to show him how foolish he was, but then that would not have gone over well in the checkout line at Walmart. I just didn’t reply. Sometimes avoiding a conversation with someone who thinks he knows what he’s doing is best.
I’m getting close to 60, myself, and realize that I’m not in as good of shape as I was in my 30s and 40s. I know my limitations. I don’t open carry.
Click to expand...

Your comments about people open carrying mirror my observations. Most people that I observe open carrying use a super cheap holster that they pick up from Walmart as if they bought a gun and are in such a hurry to show it off that they buy the first holster that they can find and put the gun on them.

I am not speaking ill of those who open carry as I acknowledge that sometimes there are legitimate reasons such as not being able to conceal carry due to laws, policies, or cumbersome application processes. Also, we are supposedly in a free country so open carrying simply because one wants to us also a legitimate reason in my mind. However, I do think it’s childish to open carry simply to gain attention which I believe is the intent of a large number of open carriers.

I am all for people carrying guns and I appreciate open carrying in the sense that it has the potential to make guns more mainstream and publicly acceptable. That said, I think open carrying makes one a prime target in a shooting event as it would be in a criminal’s best interest to shoot the person carrying a gun first. As such if an open carrier’s intent is to signal to others “don’t mess with me, I have a gun,” their intent will likely fall short.
 
Mike J said:
Now I feel like I should have said more. I mean we should either learn the manual of arms necessary or carry a different weapon. If given a choice between proficiency & higher capacity I believe proficiency to be more important. So I feel like a blew a chance to be helpful.
Click to expand...
I'd let him do whatever he wants to do. Heck, I wouldn't open carry, let alone a DA/SA gun with an empty chamber with the hammer cocked. No professional trainer is going to teach that, but that's what that guy has chosen.

We have lots of discussions on this forum where, what seem like knowledgeable folks will tell us the best way to carry a 1911 is in Condition 2, round chambered and hammer down, or a gun like a Beretta 92FS with the a round chambered and the safety engaged, and at least one guy who has disabled the decocker function on his 92FS and carries the gun with the hammer cocked and the safety engaged.

Folks knowledgeable with those guns aren't going to teach any of that as the proper way to carry those pistols, but folks choose it. It's pointless trying to point out to those folks there is a reason the vast majority of folks don't follow their ideas. They are convinced their procedure is best for them. I'm sure it is. It's your gun, your life, whatever floats your boat.
 
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"I'd let him do whatever he wants to do. Heck, I wouldn't open carry, let alone a DA/SA gun with an empty chamber with the hammer cocked."


Same. If he were smart enough to listen, he wouldn't be walking around like that.
 
Just the fact that he chooses to open carry a defensive weapon tells me much about his knowledge of carrying a gun, let alone a DA/SA gun with an empty chamber with the hammer cocked safety off. That should have waved a big red flag, I wonder if it was in a retention holster or not?
 
I will opine that the owner didn't know his gun vey well. Was this the Houston County Academy?

After a range trip with my son the other day we decided to look at the pawnshop down the road at guitars and guns and such. We went in and observed a fella trying to pawn an AR type long gun. The thing that struck me was his pistol dangling from his belt.....It was crossdraw in a canted holster with no retention mechanism in place. It was flopping about like a dead appendage. It was a CZ clone (appeared to be) that was cocked (not sure if it was locked or not). One of the more bizzare gun things I've seen in a while.
 
My experience in this metro when I was still working auto parts was that most people were using $50 kydex holsters when OC and they were usually striker fired. Which implies at least a partially cocked striker and no thumb safety. Much the same as hammer back safety off, as you insert finger and the gun goes off.

Empty chamber is often the recourse someone uses to "make it safe" getting used to a new gun. Having come up thru the use of military handguns, they always have a safety, and until I got a LCP, didn't experience the difference. I actually carried it a lot and that experience and my reaction to it was a bit eye opening. I got over it and carried it that same as any .38, with one in the chamber.

I wouldn't have mentioned his gun at all, but, again, I went thru a learning curve on that. After MO become legal for OC a frequent customer came in with a small Beretta. I commented, and he being a friendly guy who felt comfortable with us, pulled the gun out, unloaded it, and went into Show and Tell mode. Some muzzling with a live round in the chamber took place, we had a friendly chat and I did nothing more to extend the display. I never mentioned it to a carrier again. My curiousity can more safely be satisfied with an internet search and visit to a stocking dealer. The problem is once I go thru that curve, I buy the darn thing.
 
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