question on carry condition, EXCEPT 1911's

[Malamute]

My DA/SA semi-autos one can remove the mag and the gun won't fire. So load the gun and after racking the slide(safety off) you are cocked and ready to fire then eject the mag.

No I wouldn't carry cocked with safety off but I would leave a gun in the condition I described for short periods as long as I'm in possession of the mag.

So I purchased both guns one NIB tried both to assure the mag disconnect did function yet I'm to still disregard it as a safety? You do know S&W used the mag disconnect as a "safety" feature in their advertising? Bubbafied guns are a risk on the used gun market and something I avoid like the plague but I'm also not in the habit of picking strange guns and just pulling the trigger either.

In the context of all of your posts, the earlier ones being the ones I was referencing, yes, I believe what you said you thought was OK is a really bad idea, chambering a round, removing the mag, and leaving the gun and assuming its "safe". I cant figure out a good reason to do so, and certainly wouldn't regard the gun as safe sitting around out of my direct control.

YOU may not pick up some random gun and pull the trigger, but others may. Besides the issue that something like a magazine disconnect could fail, its also pretty easily overcome. A pen, pencil or other object stuck into the mag well can raise the disconnect lever in S&Ws and the gun fire. As a last ditch to keep from getting shot with your own gun in a disarm, or around poorly trained people that aren't very smart about what they do with their guns and don't completely comprehend how to unload a pistol*, they have some value. As a "safety" to keep the gun from being fired when left chamber loaded and unattended, NO, I don't think its a good idea, at all.

*It apparently isn't all that unknown for people in the .mil to "unload" their pistol coming into unloaded zones to eject the round from the chamber, then remove the magazine (to unload it), then snap the gun in the safe barrel to prove unloaded (another really poor idea I believe), and are surprised when the loud noise happens.

 

[mjmcgrso]

As a range marshal, you should include into your routine "make your weapon safe and holster it." Clarify what "safe" is before sending anyone to the line. Remove anyone who doesn't comply.

We absolutely do. The students are given classroom, written and verbal instruction as to range expectations and safety protocols. Long before they reach the line with ammo each is inspected and instructed to NOT have any ammo unless instructed to do so, NOT to remove any firearm from it's holstered position, and to keep the slide open at all times so anyone else on the range can observe the state it's in, which is, open, no mag and holstered.
There's no issues there

Now that aside, as a range marshall, what about the meat of the original topic I posted? Would you, and or would you allow or condone a person holstering a COCKED DA/SA revolver, or similar external hammer type DA/SA semi-auto sans any other mechanical or manual safety on it beyond the decocker lever / slide lock lever?
Keep in mind, decocking and then flipping the lever back down is not part of the question, only holstering it cocked, no safeties engaged just as if a revolver.
(before you answer, consider cocking a revolver, trying to holster it and snagging a shirt tail, belt loop / keeper, holster strap etc on the trigger while pushing it home...) see my point?

 

[mjmcgrso]

So I purchased both guns one NIB tried both to assure the mag disconnect did function yet I'm to still disregard it as a safety? You do know S&W used the mag disconnect as a "safety" feature in their advertising? Bubbafied guns are a risk on the used gun market and something I avoid like the plague but I'm also not in the habit of picking strange guns and just pulling the trigger either.

I was going to let you two guys keep this discussion between you because it was a departure, but sort of kinda relevant in some small way... so here's my two cents: I too have a semi with a mag disconnect. The only and I mean only function I believe it to serve is, in the off chance you end up in a struggle for your gun, if there's a snowballs chance in hell of dropping the mag in the process it MAY result in your gun not being used on you in that particular moment, but even then, trying to remove the mag while fighting is not something I train for so I would not rely on that either.
I think the only point that a mag disconnect serves in general is helping ensure against a ND IF a round is in the pipe while holstering without a mag in the well and improper handling practices are employed I.E. finger finger finger.
In your case, where keeping the gun "at the ready" (my at the ready zone is my belt) is one in the pipe, slide down, mag out... I'd almost make the following suggestion: how about all rounds in the mag, slide back, and if the need arises to grab the gun in a SHTF scene, all you must do is basically the equivalent of what you do now with the exception of inserting the mag and at the same time dropping the slide on your first round, good to go.
That avoids any potential for the one you left in the chamber going bang should that mag disconnect fail at the wrong time in the wrong hands for the wrong reasons.
Remember: safeties are a mechanical device, they can and will fail, and should not be substituted for observing ALL proper gun handling and storage rules. Just sayin'

 

[Tcruse]

Under what circumstances would the average person be using a gun other than their regular gun that they've practiced with for self defense?

The first victim is armed but down and you do not have YOUR gun with you.
Fortunately, the average person will never know since they will never be called on to use deadly force.

 

[Tcruse]

Carrying a DA/SA pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety off is just asking for a ND. 100% unsafe

I agree, however, I am sure that people end up in that condition more often that we want to admit. Especially with guns that have safety levers on both sides of the gun and the holster does not cover the safety well enough to prevent a brush with some external object that might change the position.

 

[huntsman]

Besides the issue that something like a magazine disconnect could fail, its also pretty easily overcome. A pen, pencil or other object stuck into the mag well can raise the disconnect lever in S&Ws and the gun fire.

Ah man you are going well into the weeds on this, during the regular loading process when I remove the mag to top it off and I set the gun down on a table sitck the mag in a pocket and go to the bathroom, I'm not guilty of any safety rule or violation because it's my house nobody is running around with a pencil looking to stick it anywhere. Man you guys need to lighten up, are your only gun handling experiences at public ranges?

 

[<*(((><]

Hoping I've not violated any of your constraints;
IMHO, no, it's not safe to carry anything (excluding revolvers) with a round in the chamber and the safety off and "safeties" sticking out of the trigger don't count.

How is carrying a DA/SA or DA autoloader with a round in the chamber, hammer down, no safety any different than a revolver with a round in the chamber, hammer down?

And to answer the OP, no it is not safe to carry a chambered DA with hammer cocked and no safety engaged. Very dangerous IMHO.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Some posts have disappeared, they specifically referenced an area that the OP requested we not go to. If one of the missing post was yours, please take this as a warning to not go back there

 

[mjmcgrso]

Some posts have disappeared, they specifically referenced an area that the OP requested we not go to. If one of the missing post was yours, please take this as a warning to not go back there

Thanks mod, but I hope removing posts doesn't pee in anyone's Wheaties, I don't want to tick anyone off with my wishing that this, like most threads not go off the rails and eventually become a discussion of buckshot vs birdshot... You know what I mean.
But thanks for keeping the train on the tracks that's awesome.

 

[mjmcgrso]

How is carrying a DA/SA or DA autoloader with a round in the chamber, hammer down, no safety any different than a revolver with a round in the chamber, hammer down?

And to answer the OP, no it is not safe to carry a chambered DA with hammer cocked and no safety engaged. Very dangerous IMHO.

Thanks for the input.
Yeah, I think the fellow that originally posted that comment didn't realize how it read. I think he may have meant it to come across differently but he hasn't clarified it as of yet.

 

[mjmcgrso]

Ah man you are going well into the weeds on this, during the regular loading process when I remove the mag to top it off and I set the gun down on a table sitck the mag in a pocket and go to the bathroom, I'm not guilty of any safety rule or violation because it's my house nobody is running around with a pencil looking to stick it anywhere. Man you guys need to lighten up, are your only gun handling experiences at public ranges?

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm on board with your methodology, to a degree, because everyone's home is different, however, and again don't read too far into this, but when I'm carrying, the gun goes to the bathroom with me
Be my luck I'd be sitting there when that ominous kicking in of my door comes and the last thing I want is to be defending myself with a magazine in one hand and a wad of TP in the other while my gun sits on the coffee table...