38 Special, Herc Bullseye, and Speer #11

Your using a gun that can handle .357 pressures. I think you will be ok. But....when im in doubt over a load. I pull them and change the load accordingly. BTW i load 4 grains of bullseye with 158 grain cast.

Jakuvalltrades said:

The more I read on Bullseye and 38, the less comfortable I am about what I reloaded.

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You answered your own question.

It's interesting to note, Speer #14 doesn't list a .38SPC load with a jacketed or plated bullet over 125grn, and only a low velocity load with lead 158's... although I still have my #11 and there it is. I have Alliant data, and it's sort of a mix-master of loads for the .38... like Speer, they don't have jacketed or plated data for .38/158grn. The max .38+P data they have, with a swaged 158grn, is 3.9grn.

I'm with Al, I'd pull them.

the speer #14 manual doesn't list any loads with bullets weighing more than 146 grains. apparently, speer doesn't thing there is enough pressure in the 38 special cartridge to push heavy jacketed bullets down the barrel. they do list 158 grain lead bullet loads (in the +p section) for the 38 special.

suggest you either loose a little weight, or go lead with your 38 special loading.

luck,

murf

If your 357 Magnum chambered revolver can't handle the pressure from a warm 38 Special, you have a problem gun.

fxvr is correct. I think you have nothing to concern yerself about.

murf said:

the speer #14 manual doesn't list any loads with bullets weighing more than 146 grains. apparently, speer doesn't thing there is enough pressure in the 38 special cartridge to push heavy jacketed bullets down the barrel. they do list 158 grain lead bullet loads (in the +p section) for the 38 special.

suggest you either loose a little weight, or go lead with your 38 special loading.

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Hornady is OK with 158 gr. jacketed bullets in the 38 Special. So is Lyman, Nosler, Western Powders, Vihtavuori, Sierra, X-treme. Even Alliant with is OK with it in +P.

Speer seems to be the exception, except they load their 158 plated bullets in their 38 Special +P ammo.

And then there are factory loads with 158 Jacketed/plated bullets.

the speer #14 manual doesn't list any loads with bullets weighing more than 146 grains. apparently, speer doesn't thing there is enough pressure in the 38 special cartridge to push heavy jacketed bullets down the barrel. they do list 158 grain lead bullet loads (in the +p section) for the 38 special…..

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In Speer #15, the maximum +P load data for 158-grain lead bullets is 3.9 grains of Bullseye. Much of Speer’s older data was developed without pressure measuring equipment, and was often too hot. As others have stated, if in doubt throw it out (the powder charge, not the rest!).

BTW, how does the OP know that the Bullseye is “still good”?


.

Jakuvalltrades said:

The more I read on Bullseye and 38, the less comfortable I am about what I reloaded.

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That right there is all that matters. I can quote you Lyman's data or Speer data or Alliant data or call ol' Alberto Uberti himself to say yea or nay but, in the end, what matters is what you're comfortable with. If you're not comfortable with it, you won't shoot worth beans.

Open them up, dump the powder - keep it if you like, you know what it is and where it came from - and load up something lower pressure you feel better about. Interesting thing is, Lyman's 44th ed. doesn't even list Bullseye for jacketed, just Unique and 2400 powders. FWIW: I load 4.9gr. of Bullseye under a cast/coated 158gr. RFN bullet for .357Mag. It's not "light" and I wouldn't even think about it in a .38Spl. case.

Straight from the MFG. Load book.

Here's some quick math based on the data in CC's post.

the CUP limit for 38 Special is 17,000 CUP.
the CUP limit for +P is 20,000 CUP.

Extrapolating from CC's data (and assuming a linear change in pressure), each 0.1 gr of Bullseye and a 158 grain bullet, increases pressure by 600 CUP. Thus at 4.6 gr Bullseye, pressure would be 20,200 CUP. That's just a hair over the +P limit for 38 Special. The 357 Magnum has a CUP pressure limit of 45,000.

Is a 20,200 CUP load safe in a gun that will routinely take 45,000 CUP? You decide. It's a tough call.

Bonus information:
38 Special proof load is 27,000 CUP.
357 Magnum proof load is 60,500 CUP.

Linear extrapolation of more than 5% is pretty spooky.
Phil Sharpe said 4.3 gr of Bullseye was 20000 (CUP) in 1937, so 4.6 would be somewhat more.

But if Speer's gun stood it for the 11th, yours ought to now, but it is certainly a near-magnum load.

I think the OP has decided to err on the side of caution, which in reloading is a good thing.

fxvr5 said:

Here's some quick math based on the data in CC's post.

the CUP limit for 38 Special is 17,000 CUP.
the CUP limit for +P is 20,000 CUP.

Extrapolating from CC's data (and assuming a linear change in pressure), each 0.1 gr of Bullseye and a 158 grain bullet, increases pressure by 600 CUP. Thus at 4.6 gr Bullseye, pressure would be 20,200 CUP. That's just a hair over the +P limit for 38 Special. The 357 Magnum has a CUP pressure limit of 45,000.

Is a 20,200 CUP load safe in a gun that will routinely take 45,000 CUP? You decide. It's a tough call.

Bonus information:
38 Special proof load is 27,000 CUP.
357 Magnum proof load is 60,500 CUP.

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Source plesse...don't want to file as "internet gospel"

PWC said:

Source plesse...don't want to file as "internet gospel"

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See data in post #11.

The rest is math with an assumption of linear pressure change (mentioned in post 13).

Thoughts...

• You need a chrono in the worst way
• What ever happened to "begin at the Starting Load and work up" ?

25-20 WCF said:

BTW, how does the OP know that the Bullseye is “still good”?.

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?? Don't know if your joking around are not but it's pretty simple. I have several pounds of the old bullseye that my friend passed along, it is just fine and runs well in my 686s. I'm personally running 3.5gr with 158 SWCs.