43 yard head shot? Plausible.

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Trey Veston

Trey Veston

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In the thread about the heroic Tucson, AZ officer who ended a threat at 43 yards with his M&P9, I said I would try it myself.

So, yesterday, I did.

Went to my favorite gravel pit and attempted the feat with three different firearms. The first was my carry gun; a Sig P365 using cheap Remington UMC ammo that is NOT my normal carry ammo.

I parked my free Chevy HHR at 43 yards and used it as cover. I then fired 5 rounds, off-hand, with no more than 2-second splits, to see if I could score a hit on a 9" paper plate.

I fired the P365 and scored zero hits.

I then tried the closest gun I had to the officer's weapon; a S&W M&P40 with a light attached. I fired it using some new loads I brought that didn't do all that great at 25 yards, but were OK with 2.5" groups.

I scored 2 hits that were pretty much centered.

I then tried using my Gen 4 G23 that is my alternative carry gun. The M&P is my nightstand gun, which is why it has the light. I have never fired it beyond ten yards.

The Glock also scored two hits out of five at 43 yards.

I did a total of three videos, but only the last one uploaded. And for some reason, in the video I mistakenly claimed that the previous two hits were from the P365. They were not.

Here is the video of my firing the G23 and then seeing the results.

 
I've never tried 40+ yards but we were shooting 25yrds at foam plates and found that after running around a tree that was 10yrds away our hit rate went down. We were discussing doing that again this year and including a 50yrd and 100yrd target and including rifles.
I can't imagine shooting accurately at that range with high adrenaline and heart rate and breathing hard.
 
The guns are accurate enough, but it takes practice to get a feel for distance. At an LFI-II course years ago, Mas Ayoob had us shoot our carry pistols at targets 100 yards out. There was no stress and we were allowed to use support. I was shooting a Glock 23 and overestimated the drop at 100--my first two shots went over the head of the IPSC target. Made the correction and dropped the next four COM--six inch spread IIRC. Somebody who practices at distance regularly should also be able to get hits "out there" regularly.

However, it would be hard for a civilian to make the case that he or she had to engage a human target at that distance ... a point Mas drilled into us.
 
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There was a time when I - along with just about any "serious" Bullseye/PPC/Bianchi Cup competitor - could make that shot on demand. Since I quit competing - and since Covid seriously curtailed practice - that edge has dulled quite a bit, but I can still pull it off more often then not.

That's slowfire, with a tuned gun, and nobody shooting at me. In the same shoes as the cop who had to do it, I have no idea if I could match his performance and I sure as hell hope to never find out. My hat is off to the gentleman, regardless.
 
Point well made, most "gun fights " are at 10 feet,
FBI stats show at least two rounds are fired, a lot more usually.......he who shoots first and accurately without hesitating usually prevails....a three piece combo......at least that's what I believe!
 
35 years ago, I was able to hit a 2-liter bottom at 100yds 4-5x out of 6 with a Ruger Super Blackhawk, granted I was shooting a couple hundred every week and had better eyes than I do now. Last time I shot at any distance was 250yds at a IPSC steel silhouette…hit the post low on first shot and rang steel on second. I make no claims to it being ANYTHING other than luck, just glad a couple people witnessed it.
 
My S&W 28-2 will easily put 6 rounds in a 7" paper plate at 50 yards. Most groups are 1-1/2" to 2-1/2".
A head shot in combat conditions is a product of a cool headed exceptional shot and a bit of luck.
 
In Montana I attended a fund raiser and witnessed a guy hit a 2 ft gong with a 9mm at 300 yards. A group of guys made bets and the winner won a few bucks, which he donated to Wounded Vets. But, bragging rights are for life. So, a 10" plate at 43 yds no problem.
 
I had a friend that was an incredible shot. He would routinely make shots like that.

He was deer hunting and had four coyotes come right by his stand. He shot one with a muzzle loader, then pulled his Model 29 and hit the other three running with four shots. The shot that missed hit a tree between him and the coyote
 
It is certainly possible if you practice enough and at those long ranges enough to be proficient. Also I tend to focus on task at hand when stressed out and zone out the extraneous. Comes from being a long time first responder. When going to a scene I would discuss what if's with my seatmate and we would hit the ground with a plan. That keeps the adrenaline in check somewhat and you can anticipate the others response.
 
A few years ago I decided to practice with my Buckmark to see if I could get good enough to rabbit hunt. After a LOT of rounds down range I could do about 90% on a 5" gong unsupported at 50 yards, and almost 100% supported up against a telephone pole. This is with a red dot, if I tried with my Mark I with iron sights I was closer to 50% unsupported at that distance.

I never was able to try hunting with the handgun, about that time I lost contact with the guy I used to go with who had dogs, and I'm not NEARLY good enough to jump hunt rabbits with anything but a shotgun.
 
bassjam said:
After a LOT of rounds down range I could do about 90% on a 5" gong unsupported at 50 yards, and almost 100% supported up against a telephone pole. This is with a red dot, if I tried with my Mark I with iron sights I was closer to 50% unsupported at that distance.
Click to expand...

I am amazed at how much better my groups are with a red dot.

I may try the same challenge next week with my G19 and a red dot.
 
About 10 years at an IPSC classifier at 45 yard my fellow SASS shooter and I also both old Bullseye shooters shooting a 1911 .40 and a 1911 .45acp were the only to to hit some A's and many C at that distance. We knew it was far and held bottom head. The Border patrol guys did OK but the plinkers had no idea what the drop was. Glocks did the worst.
 
Yes it definitely takes practice and good training. One of the things taught to us while I was in the Army was shooting under stress and heavy exertion. Those two things make a difference too. You have to train on how to deal with both.

And everyone is different when it comes to stressful situations too. Some are "Cool Hand Luke" while others become scatterbrains to a certain degree and don't know how to handle things. Again good training helps.

One of the things I like to do when I go to the range with handguns is to bring some clay birds with me and set them out at different distances from 25 yards out to 85 yards (farthest my local range goes to). It doesn't matter if I am shooting center fire or rimfire pistols, I still shoot at the clay birds after shooting at paper targets for groups.
 
It would be interesting if he actually practiced himself or was part of a competitive shooting group. From my experience more practice makes you a better shot.
For a long time I could hold all 6 rounds of my 44 MAG on a 8.5"X11" piece of paper at 100 YDS. I practiced that for handgun hunting. Have not done that for the last few years and tried to hit a target with my 44 from the rifle table at the range. Missed every time LOL.
 
I started out as a NRA 2700 Bullseye shooter. Slow fire is 10 rounds, offhand unsupported (that's one hand only) on an eight (?) inch black target.
Then I got a job as a lawman and decided my duty gun (and I) had to make headshots at fifty yards. We could with regularity.

I have now entered my eighth decade and I've sluffed off quite a bit. And my eyes are getting older as well. But I think I could do it once, on demand. Probably not all day.
 
Pretty sure I couldn't do that under that much stress.
That said, I can still hold the 9 ring (5 1/2") on a B-6 target at 50 yards shooting offhand. Can't do it 1 handed anymore but I've been shooting at that size target for 4+ decades. If you practice enough and know your firearms well enough it isn't that hard.
 
Archie said:
I started out as a NRA 2700 Bullseye shooter. Slow fire is 10 rounds, offhand unsupported (that's one hand only) on an eight (?) inch black target.
Then I got a job as a lawman and decided my duty gun (and I) had to make headshots at fifty yards. We could with regularity.

I have now entered my eighth decade and I've sluffed off quite a bit. And my eyes are getting older as well. But I think I could do it once, on demand. Probably not all day.
Click to expand...

I told my 79 year old dad about the 43 yard attempt the other day and he snorted. He was on the USMC pistol team in the 60's and said at 50 yards, one-hand unsupported, you better get all your hits in the black or else you would get hazed.
 
I am well out of practice, but I used to shoot my first 1911 at a wildlife range in VT. The pistol side went out to 50 yards. My "target" was an empty paint can on a paint stirrer I stuck in the ground. Being a big 45 it only took one or two consecutive hits on the stick (through the can) for the can to fall on the ground. That 1911 is a safe queen now even though it was surprisingly accurate in my hands.
 
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