Red dot sights: I need to know

How they work:
Some beam a laser at a piece of glass and a dot appears that's mostly parallax free, at least in the center of the scope. The best of these is the Aimpoint and Trijicon MRO. Battery life is insane. These should be mounted kinda high, lower 1/3rd cowitness.

Some make a holographic circle and dot. These are excellent at night. These eat batteries. I recommend mounting these lower so that the window occludes the least amount of the Back Up Iron Sights as possible. I recommend excellent BUIS, because these holo sights tend to be weak in the daylight. If you're strong with iron sights, and prefer to use those in bright daylight, the holo sights are the way to go. The Eotech XPS is the best of these.

How much more effective are they?
The Aimpoints and MRO's are faster and more accurate than Irons. And easier to shoot. A great sight to build confidence in new shooters. These are almost scopes and get in the way if it's raining or foggy. These must be mounted on a quick release mount for that reason. I recommend Larue mounts. Don't overlook the old Aimpoints like the Comp M3. It's smaller dot is very nice for longer ranges. As are it's flip up weather covers. I still like the obsolete Aimpoints the best. I use my Aimpoint rifle if it's raining or snowing.

The Eotechs are king of the night. Sometimes, for some people, they're even faster than red dots. But for me, my old Aimpoint is a hair quicker. And their flat screens tend to work better with irons. A QD mount is optional. Keep some baby shampoo handy for defog. On extremely bright days I might select my Eotech rifle, because it works better with irons. Even though the optic doesn't. Iron sights are fun in bright conditions.

Both of these sight allow you to keep 100% of your focus on the target. That's priceless. And aligning one dot, even if its not in the scope, is way easier than aligning irons and a blurry target. Especially if your lying down shooting under a car or barricade.

How to adjust?: Both have a tiny flush dial for windage, and another for elevation. Kinda like a scope.

Difference between low and high quality?: Durability, overall quality. Trijicons, Aimpoints, and Eotechs have never failed me. Super expensive, but not wasteful. Broken cheap optics are a waste of money. Optics with foggy glass suck as well. Some cheap 1x optics are excellent. Caveat Emptor, with those.

Ive been using red dots on a number of guns now for about 20 years. Im actually still using the Aimpoint Comp M2/ML2's I bought then. A couple of them have been on the whole time, and only off at the battery change each fall. The older Aimpoonts only had a 1 year (10K hour) battery life. Some of the new models are closing in on 9 years.

When I was first looking into them, I bought a number of "cheap" (they weren't cheap) brands and had terrible results. Some wouldn't hold zero, some would shut off under recoil or while shooting, all had horrible battery life.

The best thing to do here is buy the best you cant afford and cry once.

I did recently pick up a couple of SIG Romeo5's for my M&P15-22's. About $125 on sale. I first tried one of the similar sights that actually cost me about the same as the SIG's were on sale, but the battery life thing was an issue again. Dad batteries a couple of times as I didn't turn it off before I put it away. The SIG's have a shake awake feature that does work, and will likely work if the gun is sitting in the safe, but if you move the gun at all, or its bouncing around in your car, its going to be on.

The first sight of this type I used, was an Armson OEG, which is a "sorta" red dot (fiber optic and tritium). I really liked how fast and easy they were to shoot with (once you understand how they work and get used to them), but they were also lacking. Once the red dots showed up, it just reinforced the whole concept, but a lot of the early units were really not all that great.

Just a side note here, the Armsons showed me you can shoot well without seeing through the tube, and that same principle applies to things like the Aimpoints with the front cover closed.

If you're not sure, Id try and pick up one of the cheaper sights, maybe something like one of the cheaper the SIG's, and see how they work for you and if you like them (I have no doubt you will, and that could be bad for your wallet ). The better sights are going to cost you in the neighborhood of $400 and up.

I bought the first generation red dot available in the 1980s' and there was only Aimpoint. It was pretty good, horrible 8 hour battery life, the elevation and windage were adjusting screws between the unit and the mounting base. Still have it. It wasn't cheap even then.

I bought a Bushnell refurb off Amazon, and with almost 40 years of advancements its head and shoulders better, larger apeture, better visual acquistion, etc. The more expensive, the more features, and the better the glass. LIke scopes, you can spend as much as the rifle they are on, and get great performance. Keep in mind, tho, for a infrequently used rifle that doesn't get thrown in the back of a HMMV or the floor of a 4WD truck, that expensive level of durability may not be that much a priority. Only you can decide.

Nobody will promise you a great optic for $40 (it could happen) the starting prices tend to begin a $100 with a step in quality at $200. Soon after that, you start paying for an exclusive feature, and over $400 you quickly get diminishing returns. Keep in mind its a cast housing with an emitter, mirrored glass, and for the closed units another lens at the back usually all flat ground and not shatter proof - industry keeps hanging back from that for repeat sales. A red dot is not even as complicated as a decent set of binos and definitely not as technically qualified - again, flat glass, no prisms,. mid price range has fair battery life, and those features aren't always as impressive as the ad copy. Shake awake? Not so much. 50,000 hour working life, depends, guys pick them up and the don't work, water resistant, in degrees, not proof. And again, not shatter proof lenses. Breathe on it and you see it fog and freeze over on opening morning. oops. Now what?

There are practical limits to what they do for the money, it enhances your skill level but can't guarantee results. With that in mind - DOD went for them wholesale and they are now issued across the board in a lot of units. That alone is a good recommendation.They have improved first round hit capability far cheaper than paying for a lot more range time annually and that ammo budget. Bean counters dream.

When I turned 65 my eyes would not focus on open sights well enough so I started putting red dot sights on my pistols and a few rifles. I now have about a dozen and would not go back to open sights for anything.
The main things to judge them on are battery life, crispness of the dot, and holding zero.

I've tried to like them, but haven't found one that works for me. I've never tried the higher end models, but have tried some in the $200 range including the Vortex SPARC which is supposed to be pretty good. Had a Sig Romeo 5 and let it go too.

I have a few complaints.

In low light I can see the dot, but the glass is so bad I can't see the target clearly. Kind'a defeats the purpose on a hunting or SD rifle. And they are not very precise. At handgun SD ranges maybe, but beyond 25 yards or so forget any precision. I've not tried one yet, but the small units that work on handguns do have my interest. I may give one a try.

My vision for normal stuff is actually pretty good, but at 63 I can no longer clearly focus on iron sights. I find a low powered conventional scope works best for me. All of my AR's and one hunting rifle have 1-4X or 1-6X conventional scopes on them. I find they work much better in low light. The much larger objective lets in a lot more light and I can easily see heavy cross hairs long after official sundown. And in total darkness I have a light mounted on the AR's that will illuminate targets 50-75 yards away. On 1X I find them faster for quick shots than either dots or irons. And I have the ability to go up to 4X or 6X for longer range precision shots.

There are many conventional scopes now with illuminated cross hairs that provide the best of both types. And then there is price. I can find a pretty good conventional scope for less than a budget dot sight, around $200. And at that price point a conventional scope can be pretty rugged.

I ponied up for a Holosun for my M1a for much the same reasons as you. Spendy? kinda, but it's a great sight. I put it on the scout rail, and shoot it with both eyes open. It has a "dot-in-a-donut" reticle, and its fast, the dot is 2moa, so it's pretty accurate. The pic of the red dot is blurry, my camera didn't focus. On the scope it is sharp, and brightness is adjustable.

For a hunting gun, I like a traditional scope. BSA has never let me down, and are budget friendly, and have a number of models with lighted reticles.

jmr40 said:

I have a few complaints.

In low light I can see the dot, but the glass is so bad I can't see the target clearly. Kind'a defeats the purpose on a hunting or SD rifle. And they are not very precise. At handgun SD ranges maybe, but beyond 25 yards or so forget any precision. I've not tried one yet, but the small units that work on handguns do have my interest. I may give one a try.

My vision for normal stuff is actually pretty good, but at 63 I can no longer clearly focus on iron sights. I find a low powered conventional scope works best for me. All of my AR's and one hunting rifle have 1-4X or 1-6X conventional scopes on them. I find they work much better in low light. The much larger objective lets in a lot more light and I can easily see heavy cross hairs long after official sundown. And in total darkness I have a light mounted on the AR's that will illuminate targets 50-75 yards away. On 1X I find them faster for quick shots than either dots or irons. And I have the ability to go up to 4X or 6X for longer range precision shots.

There are many conventional scopes now with illuminated cross hairs that provide the best of both types. And then there is price. I can find a pretty good conventional scope for less than a budget dot sight, around $200. And at that price point a conventional scope can be pretty rugged.

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I havent had an issue with the glass being a problem, at least no different than any other sight that uses glass. If for some reason youre having that problem, you can close the front cover (if you have one) and that should take care of that.

Ive always had good precision and accuracy with mine, even with the 4moa dots. 1'-1.5" groups with my AR's at 100 yards is pretty much the norm, if you can hold the aiming point with that dot, or use the top of the dot.

My problem with the red dots is, I have an astigmatism and the dot is more of a twinkling star than it is a dot. It was annoying at first, but I got used to it pretty quick, and dont even think about it now.

For me, as I got into my mid 40's, the red dots were a definite improvement over the irons, especially when shooting reactively. Speed and hits improved quite a bit, especially snap shooting. And while the dots dot help greatly as you get older, its not an age thing, I think everyone will see a big benefit to them.

Until recently, I was never really a "scope" person and prefered irons or the dots. I had one AR set up with a Leupold 1.5x5 on it, and thats OK, and had a 700V in 308 with a Sheperd BDC on it that was good too. But that was about it.

Like you, Im getting older and Im really seeing my eyes go quicker now. I recently picked up a couple of the Vortex Strike Eagle 1x8's for a couple of AR's, and have been pretty impressed with them. Im not really looking at them like a scope though, and more like a powered red dot. They do have the lighted reticle feature, and it is a help, especially against dark targets. They still arent as quick as the red dots to shoulder and shoot with though. I find the dot just to be quicker to pick up.

Back to the glass thing above, I do notice this to be more of an issue for me with the scopes than the red dots, and I wonder if it isnt more of an issue of where the optic is mounted. My red dots are mounted forward, away from my eye, where the scope, because of its eye relief forces you to have it close. With the scopes, I notice reflections from behind (I also have similar issues with my peep sights too), especially in certain light conditions that I dont see with my red dots. I could see the same thing happening if you had the red dot mounted close to the eye, as Ive seen some people do.

A couple of advantages with the forward mounted dots are, the sight isnt in your face and messing with your peripheral vision, you dont tend to get lost in the tube, as the dot is out in front of you and in the same plane as the irons and your cheek weld works the same. You arent trying to look through the tube to see the target. You shoot with both eyes open, and the dot just appears on the target where you are looking at it. Unless for some reason I focus on it, I dont even notice the body of the sight at all.

I picked one up from Cabela's a while ago, and just grabbed an OK one, think it was like $100 and don't know details on it. I am like you and don't know too much, so - just got one to use it and see what it was about. My expeirence is it is a bit easier to pick up a target at say 30-50 yards. Sight in and adjust is same as a scope, vertical and horizontal adjustments. I got it for a Mini-14, but have only so far used it on a .22LR. I don't find it superior in any way compared to the open sights other than, it is a bit easier to pick up the target quickly, and I'm a bit more confident that I'll hit the can or whatever I'm aiming at. I haven't done any scientific work to check groups or speed, but - I think doing some work with it also helps in general practice, target aquiring, etc. To me it makes it a bit easier to see if your hold is shakey or wandering, and having a more stable hold is the result in my experience. The ease to pick up the target is better, but - someone well practiced with iron sights would still outperform an novice shooting a red dot IMHO. A notice shooting both, the red dot would likely be a clear winner, but you still have to be able to shoot.