AR 10, how to accurize it?

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Gordon said:
6.8 requires a new bolt head and magazines , for an AR15 yeah, for a AR10 nay ! .308 is common , 6.8 not so much !
You haven't learned your lesson about the "trick" stuff yet it sounds like concerning barrel nut weirdness and going with a carbon fiber wrapped barrel on your AR10 problem ? Go with what is known by many of us here who got great results with "conventional" high quality (known) barrels and barrel nuts ect. versus the latest and greatest sales pitch crapshoot ?
Your choice, just avoiding another unhappy experience is something I learned about 30 years back .
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Sage words. I want to get a pic of the barrel nut patented via Black Rain and get your thoughts. In the mean while, I would rather go with a "conventional" style. Unless this two piece is something I should have the patience to learn, would you suggest a barrel nut?
 
sarduy said:
You don’t, you buy a bolt action instead. The AR10 was never meant to be super accurate, it’s a battle rifle in 7.62 Nato. There are AR platforms purposely build for accuracy like the SR25 and the M110, but even that has it’s limitations.
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I traded a nice Savage with a Shilen match bbl for a very nice AR10. I was obsessed with 1 hole, 5 shot groups, and wanted to take a break from it! I was very surprised to find the AR shot my 175gr match king hand loads into slightly bigger ragged hole 5 shot group. So ARs are very capable of super accuracy, which didn’t help my problem at all!:)
 
The barrel nut on many ,AR platforms may free float the forearm, Which is a good thing.But there are many fore arm makers using various ways that take the load and some use a proprietary nut design to do it. Some work some don't . If you have a " regular" forend use a stock nut. If you have a float forend use the attachment it came with. With the terrible groups you are getting some thing is wrong with the barrel however.
 
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Still curious, not meaning to be flippant.


Skylerbone said:
Things we don’t know:
1. How did it shoot day 1-the day you disassembled it?
2. How did you disassemble? With correct tools or by any means?
3. How did you reassemble? Torque specs (and do you know what they are for an AR-10?
4. Why would you run your barrel on a home lathe for a timing issue? They make crush washers and shims to time align. That’s begging for damage, a voiding of warranty, and inducing stress to a finished barrel.
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gun'sRgood said:
I shot this recently without any terminal muzzle device and was getting a nice 10"-12" group like target at 100yds.
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10-12” can be done at 100 with ammunition that isn’t quite stable. There are really so many things it could be, the first thing I would do is try narrow things down by eliminating variables. Optic changing zero, ammunition that doesn’t like the rifle.?

gun'sRgood said:
When I had the barrel off, I lathed that portion. So, first the crown, then the threads, then a void , then the shoulder of the barrel. That shoulder is what I lathed. this minimally increased the void. The idea of this is so when you put something on the threaded end, the threads do not continue to the shoulder of the barrel. Which may allow the "device" to cant. The squared off shoulder forces or allows the "device" to maintain alignment. BUT! I don't recall looking at the crown. I will. Is an 11 degree still the choice?
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I am not quite sure what you are describing there. Seems you are talking about the muzzle end, threads, crown, a void getting larger but even with nothing there your at 10-12” at 100 yards. Is that right? Even if you made something crooked, that doesn’t mean it will shoot patterns vs groups though. Groups that large make me think of things that are loose.

In any case 10” is pretty bad for a rifle you expect to shoot 1 MOA or better. Just get another barrel. That won’t be the same as throwing the rifle in the trash and starting over. Once you see the rifle will shoot well with the ammo you are using and a decent barrel, you can go back and fiddle with your “project” barrel and see if you can get it to work. At least you won’t be wasting time and components on a combination you know for certain does not work.
 
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6.8 SPC isn’t quite uncommon, but it’s certainly losing marketshare more and more. In 2021 and beyond, and for several years already, there’s not much sense in the 6.8 SPC, while the 6.5 Grendel family has taken and confirmed its market lead.

But it feels like there’s a much easier answer here with your 308win. I say it often - it’s pretty hard to screw up an AR. So having this one screwed up... well, it shouldn’t be persistent.
 
Skylerbone said:
Still curious, not meaning to be flippant.
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I like your inquires and feel they are highly appropriate. I need to carve out some time for a few pics. I readily know that to answer your questions will result in a mountain of knowledge for me. Thanks. Back to ya soon
 
jmorris said:
10-12” can be done at 100 with ammunition that isn’t quite stable. There are really so many things it could be, the first thing I would do is try narrow things down by eliminating variables. Optic changing zero, ammunition that doesn’t like the rifle.?



I am not quite sure what you are describing there. Seems you are talking about the muzzle end, threads, crown, a void getting larger but even with nothing there your at 10-12” at 100 yards. Is that right? Even if you made something crooked, that doesn’t mean it will shoot patterns vs groups though. Groups that large make me think of things that are loose.

In any case 10” is pretty bad for a rifle you expect to shoot 1 MOA or better. Just get another barrel. That won’t be the same as throwing the rifle in the trash and starting over. Once you see the rifle will shoot well with the ammo you are using and a decent barrel, you can go back and fiddle with your “project” barrel and see if you can get it to work. At least you won’t be wasting time and components on a combination you know for certain does not work.
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Your thought of something loose is spot on. I'll show ya and expect a bit of "how did you miss that?!" coming at me. But i gotta get a few honey dues or there won't be any $$$ for anything.
 
The difference between a DPMS 308 AR and an AR-10 is AR-10 is the registered, copywrited name for Armalite. Just own a DPMS and order AR-10 parts, see how they work in your DPMS. The magazines will not even interchange.

This is a real Armalite AR-10, note the 45 degree angle at the upper and lower joint ending at the takedown pin, top is a .25 inch 308, bottom is a .13 inch 260.

index.php
 
Black Rain is a brand built on looks more than performance. I have a good friend who worked for them not terribly long ago and was surprised to find out how many Radical Firearms parts are bought by Black Rain and re-badged. If it were my rifle, I’d start with a new barrel and handguard.
 
https://criterionbarrels.com/media/accurizing-the-ar-15-video-series/?v=7516fd43adaa

That link has all sorts of good info.
And... if you are reasonably competent with tools , you can do most all of the videos improvements.
I will second the true the upper receiver face ( part 3 , 54 second point ).. I do it to all mine now.
Until we see photos of your freefloat tube barrel nut setup... I am not positive a "normal" Large Frame lapping tool will fit yours.( There is a special one for Aero M5E1 Enhanced ) so post some pics, please.

I am a firm believer in a snug upper to lower fit, on all my AR's... easier to have a consistent wielding of the AR.

If you are not comfortable doing some of the things... post back here and ask...

You can assemble a very accurate Large Frame AR... I have done so myself... And I am not a Super AR Gunsmith... just an average mechanically minded guy.
Bear in mind .... buy as good a respected barrel you can afford ( a bargain in these days of high cost ammo ) ... you might have to try a fair assortment of factory ammo to find one your barrel likes ( a great barrel will tend to shot a larger assortment of ammo better )
And the 3rd thing... you can already do... shoot well.

FWIW... these are a 6.5CM 10rd group, 100yds, rapidish fire, and a 308 10rd 100yd rapidish fire group. No barrel cool down ( like God intended an AR to be shot. )

I flubbed the fliers.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (2).jpg

IMG_3106_JPG-860403.jpg

FWIW.... PSA PA10 upper and lower, 6.5CM Criterion 22" barrel, .308 Criterion 18" , SLR 's Adj GB on all mine... both assm'd using the Criterion Videos tricks.
 
gun'sRgood said:
Unless this two piece is something I should have the patience to learn, would you suggest a barrel nut?
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Two piece barrel nuts are pretty popular, and certainly not complex, so it’s not so difficult to use them. Not saying Black Rain does it better than anyone else, but I wouldn’t get distracted by that particular detail.
 
Varminterror said:
Two piece barrel nuts are pretty popular, and certainly not complex, so it’s not so difficult to use them. Not saying Black Rain does it better than anyone else, but I wouldn’t get distracted by that particular detail.
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Do you know of a youtube link showing how the two piece barrel nuts are applied? Thx
 
Hey guys thanks for all the support and ideas. Lots of things I'd not have guessed at until you folks. Awesome! When going to take pic's I noticed that the brake was never tightened. Well that just might be an issue! Ya just never get used to the feeling of doing something stupid. The last time I had this apart it was impossible to align the hand guard mounting holes to the barrel nut. I put a few shims on the muzzle end of the barrel nut to get the alignment. Not sure why this was needed? Then I put red lock on the 8 mounting screws. I plan on trying the gun once more with an adequately tightened muzzle brake. In the mean while, I visited every site i could find on Black Rain patent pending two piece muzzle brake. For all it's worth, I don't think they use this anymore. Kind of like the razor sharp nuisance of a pineapple brake that this once had. Super stupid design. The thing cuts anything it touches.
 
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