First 1911 questions

I shoot a 1911 but do not consider myself an expert. Believe me, there are experts on this forum. They'll wander by sooner or later. In the meantime, do a THR search (upper right screen corner). Punch in 1911 and read.

If you really want to read, surf over to www.thefiringline.com and do a search over there. The TFL is the daddy rabbit to this site as well as others.

Do a google and punch in "1911 forum". There are several out there.

Check out www.1911forum.com for any and all 1911 opinions.

The "new rollmark" colts are the 1991's with new rollmark. they are series 80 guns. Colt has also started remaking the series 70.

For lots of fun at low price, check out the Springfield Milspec. They can be had for $429 plus shipping on Gunbroker.com.

Welcome to the addiction......

Most of the newly made 1911's even the higher priced ones are all using the dreaded MIM cast parts. Some makers like Kimber use everything they can make of MIM parts and I am told they are made for them by S&W. Wether this is true or not I cannot say.

The point is, today there is no such thing as a low priced or even high priced 1911 that is probably not going to give you a lot of functioning problems due to the use of the MIM cast part which is not to be confused with traditional cast parts that are of a much higher quality.

There are those that do not mind buying and using guns made of castings. Ruger has made guns made largely of cast steel and stamped sheet metal for years. Since most people look at price first and quality second or simply do not have enough experience to know the difference in the strength of cast versus Forged or do not mind the less appealing aesthetics of castings they see nothing wrong with owning a weapon that has cast parts in it.

I can say this much. Castings given the same heat treatment and thickness are 2 1/2 times less stronger than the older forged parts. But the counter argument is : Is this extra strength really needed? And that is where all the mud slinging starts.

I personally can tell you what I would do. I would look for a good used original Colt Series 70 or pre-series 70. They had all quality forged parts and if you look hard enough and have enough patients you will eventually find one and pay only a little more for it than you would for the current low quality, low entry level 1911's. You must remember you will probably end up spending a lot of money replacing any MIM parts that are in your new 1911 so this must also be added to the price of the gun and the quality forged parts that you will buy are not cheap and may require some hand fitting and if you have a gunsmith do this for you , you once again have to add this to the cost of the gun.

Now you can see that the entry level gun you thought was going to be so cheap has in the long run cost you just as much or not more tha buying the older quality used gun. Not to mention all the cussing you will be doing when your new gun does not work as reliably as it should if left with all the MIM cast parts in it.

Once again do not confuse MIM cast with tradtional cast parts. Guns like the current Browning High Power do not use any MIM cast parts and they are made largely of tradition castings that seem to hold up very well and do not need replaced. Unfortunately in the world of current 1911's you probably will not find any that are free of MIM parts. Some use a lot of them (Kimber) some use only a few of them (Colt).

I do own pistols with traditional cast parts(not MIM cast) in them but I personally love only the old fashion high quality pistols that I also own, and they use the precision fitted high quality long lasting forged parts and have beautiful high polish hand finishes on them.

AS FAR AS TWO PIECE BARRELS. I have never had any problems with longevity or accuracy with the lower recoiling 9mm guns like the High Power that were after 1966 switched from one piece barrels to two piece barrels. I have heard ,but cannot verify ,that two piece barrels in the heavier recoiling .45 acp weapons do come apart once in awhile but since I own no two piece 1911 barrels I have no first hand experiece with this.

Just my peresonal opinoin but this is what I would do and have continued doing when I want to buy another gun. I seldom buy anything new anymore. There are just too many older high quality pistols and rifles out there that were made long ago and in the case of rifles are often sold for only a song.

I'd vote for the Colt 01991. Probably most bang for the buck I've gotten out of anything. Well, except maybe for my old CZ-75B.

I would go with a Springfield Loaded Because at around $650 its your biggest bang for the buck. It is a 1911 thats similar to a series 70 Colt. It only has the Mainspring lock ,it also has Novak sights, extended beavertail,loop hammer ,and forward cocking serrations . If you want a basic 1911 it pretty hard to beat a Milspec Springfield 1911.

As suggested go to 1911forum.com for the most comprehensive info on the 1911.

I currently own one 1911, a "new rollmarked" Governnment Model Series 80 and with just under 1000 rounds have not had one bobble. To say that I recommend would be an understatement.

I would argue that you should go with something stainless. Don't get me wrong I am a die hard blued fan especially the old colt blue. But 1911 are certain to be an addiction and that way you can change out parts and upgrade as you certainly will want to do with out having to get it refinished each time. After you figure out what kind of controls and features you like you can make sure you include them in your second 1911 and believe you me there will be a second.

I have over a dozen 1911's from Colt, Kimber, and Springfield. I'm into them all in a big way. If i were in your shoes, depending on budget I would buy:

1st Colt Series 70 re-issue (around $800) (polished blue steel)

2nd choice: Colt 1991 new rollmark Series 80 (around $550) (polished blue steel) or in stainless for around $625.

Here's my new Series 70 with a slight change of grips and trigger:

Colt Series 70 - new production/re-issue


Regarding the materials of components in the new Colts:

The following list is from the General Foreman of Handguns at Colt, Hartford, Ct.

Colt parts materials MIM, forged, cast ..... General Components of 1911 style Pistols production.

FORGED:
•Slide
•Receiver
•Barrel
•Slide Stop

MACHINED FROM BAR STOCK:
•Extractor (one of the most critical components to reliable function in a 1911)
•Hammer
•all pins
•bbl Link
•bbl Bushing
•Trigger ( not sure if he means all of it )
•Ejector
•Firing Pin
•Firing Pin Stop


CAST:
•Safety Lock
•Grip Safety

MIM:
•Sear
•Mag Catch
•Disconector

These are excellent choices of materials for the designed use of the parts.

To read some great reviews of the new Colts from a guy who really knows 1911's:

http://usgi1911.tripod.com/series70/

http://usgi1911.tripod.com/series80/

Colt is making some really great guns again. But they're not a dime a dozen. They are a bit harder to find than the mass produced brands, but the result is worth the search.

Tack on question: Which Springfield's are loaded models?

I was checking out the Springfield Armory site and was confused about the "Loaded" term. I'm assuming that Loaded is the set of features that are included one specific model or some models (but not all). If so, which ones are "Loaded"?

Never mind. I just answered my own question. If you click on each different model, it will say on the individual model page, "Custom Loaded xxxxxx" if it is a Loaded model.

Good advice from all above.

I have my druthers...handle and shoot if can before purchase. Minor differences in "feel" and fit. The new Colts as Sean Smith and Pic above...fits me REAL well. I have Series I Kimbers, and various Mil-Specs that work for me...Though I have some stainless--something about blue and wood... Try before you buy...

I was in the same position you're in a couple of months ago. Did a lot of question asking & reading here and at 1911.com. Thought I had my choices narrowed down to a Springfield or Colt milspec. Took home a Kimber Custom II because it already had all the things done to it that I would've wanted to do to the milspecs.
I read a lot of this & that about MIM parts & series II problems but came to the conclusion that it's mostly much to do about nothing. Some people were sure that there was an inherent problem with both, but the majority felt the problems were much hyped and overrated.
My 2 cents.

Take a good look at the Dan Wessons that you had on your list. There are good things happening with this company. You can get a handfitted Patriot Expert with ajustable sights for under $750. As others had mentioned above, check out the 1911forum...There is a thread for Dan Wesson there along with the other companys you are interested in. Good luck and welcome to 1911's - They ARE addicting...........

Art