.223 sizing question

1. May be stiffer brass that springs the Press slightly *
2. (If you haven't already), adjust die to hit shell-holder + 1/8th turn and see if that fixes any problem

* Given this, the brass may not be sized enough to chamber consistently in an AR
"Stuck-shoulder-upon-AR-closure" syndrome trying to get that sucker back out.

The person shooting the Norma ammo had an oversized chamber.

Not all brass is the same and not all chambers are the same and not all resizing dies are adjusted properly.

As in the above post #2, readjust your dies and go through the resizing a second time to be sure you are resizing the very bottom few thousandths of the case head.

Plunk test enough cases until you are confident the sizing die is properly adjusted!

You will thank me later!

Smiles,

Pull the decapping assembly. Maybe the base of the Norma cases are a bit thicker than the other head stamps.

cfullgraf said:

Pull the decapping assembly. Maybe the base of the Norma cases are a bit thicker than the other head stamps.

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Would raising the expander assembly be more effective

AJC1 said:

Would raising the expander assembly be more effective

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Either would work. Removing the decapping assembly would just show if there was interference. It would be easy to do and show quick results. Re-adjusting the decapping assembly would require a little work to get reliable decapping action while still completely getting rid of the spent primer in the collection container.

It shows that re-adjusting the decapping assembly was in order to correct sizing issue.

Mr_Flintstone said:

After cleaning and drying it, I started sizing it when I noticed a few pieces that the ram wouldn’t close all the way and touch the die. There was maybe a playing card thickness in distance between them, but I ran them through again. All the ones that wouldn’t size all the way were Norma.

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W/O actually seeing this I couldn't even begin to guess. I have 300+ pcs of Norma brass I have all ready for loading and another 50pcs that were just shot by me and another 50pcs already loaded.

My opinion is it is not the Norma brass but it may be this Norma brass. Recently had some range pickup brass that would go about 3/4 the way into the sizing die and then get really hard. Instead of sticking a case in the die I threw it all away. Just not worth the pain and effort for a 10c pc of brass.

AJC1 said:

Would raising the expander assembly be more effective

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It might, depends on if it’s the problem and by how much it is moved, if one moved it “plenty high” and it got stuck in the neck as it was being sized, that would be unpleasant.

Removing it all together eliminates it completely from being a potential problem, in one step.

FWIW: I generally adjust the deprime (expander) stem
as shallow as possble and still relaibly punch the primer.
(That generally takes care of a Post #5 problem)

The other issue that causes deviation in sizing effectiveness
is the force req'd to size (resulting in more press spring).
-- What Lube is the OP using?

Mr_Flintstone said:

What might be the reason that the ram would not close all the way on some of the Norma brass?

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It’d be nice to know what press you’re using, and when the press stops is it a “clunk” hard stop or just so much resistance it can’t go anymore? The former is typically a blockage in the case or a berdan primed case but I wouldn’t expect that with Norma .223. The latter is usually the time I get my stuck puller out. We all want to know what you find! Good luck.

Mr_Flintstone said:

I’m using a Lee single stage press and Lee dies. After much thought, I’m of the mind that the decapping rod was too deep. It was seated all the way down on the die when I got it, and I never had need to adjust it before. When I reassembled it, I put it back where it was. I think today I’ll adjust it up a little and run a few.

I think I finally got all the Norma sized with enough effort, but I need to see if the decapping rod was the issue. I’ll load these up, and see if they run OK and then give them another try.

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Plunk test enough cases until you are confident the sizing die is properly adjusted!

Smiles,

Not sure I know how to PLUNK a rifle barrel, could you please explain how.

Get a case gauge. They’re cheap enough.

matter of fact, on sale at Midway

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018113885?pid=962600

kmw1954 said:

Not sure I know how to PLUNK a rifle barrel, could you please explain how.

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You could get one of these. I like to have one for 7.62 and 5.56. I may or may not use it to set headspace depending on what I'm doing but if you want to plunk test rifle rounds to ensure function in a variety of chambers, this is the way.
https://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPCG-223

redcon1 said:

View attachment 1046563
You could get one of these.

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I have two of those but not what I would call a "Plunk Test". My view a Plunk Test involves using the barrel.

kmw1954 said:

I have two of those but not what I would call a "Plunk Test". My view a Plunk Test involves using the barrel.

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Yeah, pretty much. I think this would be as close as you could get to plunk testing a rifle and would be my best suggestion for reloading unknown range brass. Just get it back to minimum saami specs and make sure it "plunks" in one of these gages. if it won't pass this gage despite full length resizing per the instructions included with the die, maybe try small base dies and then inspect for signs of case head separation now and after using it as they may have just left the brass lying in the dirt because they weren't comfortable loading it anymore and you probably just over sized it to get it to pass that gage. Or you could just load one up without powder and see if it chambers OK. I'm certainly not a master reloader or anything but I've worked with some crappy brass before and small base dies and a JP enterprise gage got me on the right track. All this being said, I'm hesitant to collect questionable brass from the range and I probably wouldn't be using this brass since I have ton of 5.56 that I know the history on.

You are using a Lee press ? Is that the open face (C) type press ? If so you may need to give up now . Your problem is 100% press deflection/flex . I was helping a new reloader through this very issue using the same press . I told him to keep screwing down his die until the die and shell holder touched . Long story short the press broke before he could size the hard to size cases enough to chamber .

So my advice to you is the same keep screwing the die down till the case sizes enough , Make sure you use really good namebrand lubricant and be prepared to except the possibility of your press breaking .

Metal God said:

I told him to keep screwing down his die until the die and shell holder touched . Long story short the press broke before he could size the hard to size cases enough to chamber . .

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Sorry but I cannot agree to telling anyone to do that. Enough to break a metal press. Again sorry but that is just foolish. So broke a press and maybe could have ruined a die over a what, a 30cent pc of brass!

No way it should ever take that much pressure to resize a pc of brass. That's just the way I feel about it but you are all Free to do as you please.

kmw1954 said:

Sorry but I cannot agree to telling anyone to do that. Enough to break a metal press. Again sorry but that is just foolish. So broke a press and maybe could have ruined a die over a what, a 30cent pc of brass!

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I did mis speak he was able to chamber a sized case but that was a case he sized on the stroke that broke his press .

To each his own , I told him what he needed to do to size his case enough to chamber is his rifle . FWIW I gave the short version here of the back and forth I had with the OP in the other thread/forum .

His cases would not chamber even after "FL sizing" so I asked if there was a gap between the die and shell holder at the top of the stroke . He said yes and I recommended he screw the die down more . He did with no change . He said the gap remained . I then explained if the die and shell holder are not touching then he has not sized the case to the full extent possible his equipment should allow . I recommended keep screwing the die down incrementally until the case chambers or the die and shell holder are touching at the top of the stroke all while adding that there was a good chance he could damage his cheap cast press . He made it clear he understood the risks and proceeded . The stroke that broke his press also sized the case enough to chamber in his rifle .

I gave the right help and what I recommended did in fact result in the case freely chambering if his rifle . Unfortunately it also showed he needed a stronger press to size those cases enough to chamber in his rifle . The reason I jumped into that thread and gave that advice was because many posters were telling him he needed to grind down the die or the shell holder . IMHO grinding on anything is almost never the right thing to do when it comes to sizing cases . I would say 9 times out of 10 it's press deflection that's the issue but as I've addressed this issue countless times on these forums over the years . It's likely more accurate to say 99 times out of 100 it's the press that is not allowing the case to be sized enough or simply improper die adjustment rather then needing to custom grind a factory part .

I don't think I'd ever not tell someone the truth on what I believe is the issue , that said although I did feel bad about it and did offer to send the OP one of my presses for the price of shipping because his broke on my advise . I in no way feel bad I gave him the correct info to resolve his problem . FWIW the press I offered was an old Herters press that would have cost at least 1/2 the cost to ship as a new stronger press like Hornady or such . He chose to by a new one instead .

I understand what you are expressing though I still support my assertion that there in no way should be that much pressure involved to break a press just resizing brass. Brass is soft and malleable, doesn't take a lot of pressure to bend or distort it. Again I refer to my posting at #8. A inexpensive pc of brass is not worth the effort to stick a case and ruin a die. If it doesn't go into the die and fully resize easily I throw that pc, of brass away. I have nothing to prove by resizing a pc of junk brass other than to suggest "I Won".

I would have asked if that person were having the same issue with all brass after the first adjustment or with just that particular lot. If the shell holder will contact the die when empty then it should do the same when full w/o having to stand on the handle. In some cases it could be that the case is just too dry, other ways it could be bent or bulged.. My practice, if overly bent or bulged it gets tossed. This prevents this all from happening.

Plainly stated that if one is applying enough pressure to fracture a reloading press then that person is over stressing the press.