Darth-Vang
Member
How many of you here would honestly if, let’s just say that the background check was no longer required starting tomorrow. How many of you would truly be okay with that? Trying to see people’s response.
What if the background check was removed permanently?
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Bazoo
Member
I would be. In my state, Ky, private sales are unrestricted. My buddy and I met a guy off armslist in Walmart parking lot. My buddy swapped a 1911 for an AR15. No ID, no questions asked. So the only difference would be gun store purchases.
jonnyc
Member
No thank you. After living for 62 years, and working in two gun shops, I know there are plenty of "people" who should not possess firearms. If you're not willing to wait a few minutes to ensure that dangerous loonies don't get legal guns, get an FFL.
aaaaa
Member
Guess I don't mind the background check but suspect some agency is keeping records of every time I get a background check, and why. That I don't like.
Shanvanvocht
Member
Lets remember that background checks were not required until the Brady Act of 1993 and the NICS system did not go live until 1998. Very many of us were buying our firearms long before that without problem. Sure, there are a plenty of people whom I would not like to see with a gun, but that is not my call.
dogtown tom
Member
"Shall not be infringed" means what it says. I'm not holding my breath waiting on the USSC to agree.
Until then, we work with what we got.
While the Brady Law purportedly stops the sale of a firearm from a licensed dealer to a prohibited person, in reality we all know that criminals by definition don't follow the law. Its easy to find a straw buyer, steal or buy from the street without ever being subject to a background check. So, the background check is essentially only going to prevent the really stupid criminals from trying to buy a gun from an FFL.
The GAO released this report several years ago, its worth a read:https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf Right there on the front page is this gem:
Stopped laughing yet? It gets better......
Yup, more than eight million NICS transactions and it yielded a dozen actual prosecutions by the feds.
Now, I'm sure some of those denials may have led to the state filing charges and the feds dropped theirs, but how disheartening it must be for an ATF Agent to investigate and know that the USAO is only going to prosecute one percent.
In the meantime, in a little more than half the states, a firearm permit (License to carry, concealed weapon, carry permit whatever) serves as an exemption to the FBI NICS check......lets expand that list of states with a qualifying permit.
Until then, we work with what we got.
While the Brady Law purportedly stops the sale of a firearm from a licensed dealer to a prohibited person, in reality we all know that criminals by definition don't follow the law. Its easy to find a straw buyer, steal or buy from the street without ever being subject to a background check. So, the background check is essentially only going to prevent the really stupid criminals from trying to buy a gun from an FFL.
The GAO released this report several years ago, its worth a read:https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf Right there on the front page is this gem:
Stopped laughing yet? It gets better......
So......eight of twelve just pled guilty....before going to trial.
Yup, more than eight million NICS transactions and it yielded a dozen actual prosecutions by the feds.
Now, I'm sure some of those denials may have led to the state filing charges and the feds dropped theirs, but how disheartening it must be for an ATF Agent to investigate and know that the USAO is only going to prosecute one percent.
In the meantime, in a little more than half the states, a firearm permit (License to carry, concealed weapon, carry permit whatever) serves as an exemption to the FBI NICS check......lets expand that list of states with a qualifying permit.
The Night Rider
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Given, people who fail the NCIS check are almost never prosecuted I'd be fine with it.
I'd be even more happy if they started actually prosecuting convicted felons in possession.
That wasn't really the question.
Darth-Vang
Member
I wouldn’t know how that was like back in those days, I was still a kid in those days. But it sounds kind of nice not having to be scrutinize.
Darth-Vang
Member
Didn’t say which side of the argument I was on. I’m here to see responses.
General Geoff
Member
Far as I'm concerned, select-fire rifles should be treated like power tools and likewise be available at any hardware store. No paperwork besides a receipt for purchase.
Adulthood and personal agency in a free society necessitates open availability of arms.
Idahou
Member
No background check is just stupid idea. Sorry, but its just that
For me its just no disscussion and im ussually disscussing everything, but there are just things that cant be unrestricted
For me its just no disscussion and im ussually disscussing everything, but there are just things that cant be unrestricted
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Like freedom.
The problem with background checks is that they don’t stop criminals, they only stop you.
All the gangbangers and hit men I’ve ever known never take one. I wonder why that is?
My Dad gets denied every time, his name, Blaine(scary, right?), is close to a terrorist’s name on a watch list. Four different purchases he gets denied, everyone has questions, no one can get it figured out and he returns for the gun in three days, four times.
In ten years this has not been fixed.
He is not a terrorist, should he be denied a firearm?
If he was a terrorist, he bought four firearms anyway…
So, we have evidence it doesn’t work, it works at a pathetically inefficient rate, or is actually oppressive to the lawful.
But some things just are not up for discussion, huh?
Yeah, that sounds like government right there.
Open mindedness is not something government does, but should be what citizens do.
So, how about all those Form 1 denials? All those were legal buyers. Even had $200 tax paid up front. I guess we’re just not allowed to have them anymore?
Did anyone here get to vote on that?
hemiram
Member
If the world was perfect, I would be fine without them, but every so often, the background checks actually keeps some loonie from getting a gun. It's rare, and even rarer for someone to actually be prosecuted, but I don't agree with getting totally rid of them. Last time I went shooting at a local range, I saw more than a couple of people who shouldn't have a gun for medical, psych, or just plain safety of handling reasons. It wasn't confidence inspiring at all. One guy appeared to have Parkinson's at a level he couldn't hit much of anything he tried to actually hit. It's like the show I see of truly sad people with major issues being allowed to renew their driver's license at the BMV. Some of them are so far gone they have to bend over backwards just to get them to use the eye test machine. Watching them drive away after they "pass" the test is pretty scary.
Idahou
Member
Like freedom.
Would you allow just everybody to drive car without proving that he/she is capable of doing so? Or piloting plane? Or practice medicene? Regulations are needed in society
Its not question of pro-gun or anti-gun, but question of common sence and fact that your dad didnt get gun isnt changing it. It sounds little bit offensive, but i dont mean it that way.
Remington1911
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I am also on the no side of things. If you every worked anywhere that sold guns you likely have a story of that one person.
When we stop back and look at things, bad guys have always done bad things with guns, be they a highway man in the 1600, or the gang banger hanging a hipoint out over a car sideways as he drives down the street. This is something humans have always had to deal with.
Where I am wanting to know what the hell happened is when people just decide to walk into a X and start shooting, then end themselves or suicide by cop. We had one here this week, perhaps last. High school senior comes to school, shoots the SRO, and a vice principal and then is finally stopped. Guy walks into a church, a restrurant, or back to what I see as the start of this a clock tower at a college. Why is this a thing now, what has changed. Gun laws are not stopping it, things are much looser in 1966 when Charles whitman did his thing. We have stacked laws and laws and more laws, and the problem gets worse. If something is not working it is time to look to a new something. What has changed.....the world, is just the world now that we live in just making people like this, don't know. I do know one thing, if my choice is living in Oz and having the .gov come to my house grab me and toss me into a camp because they think I have a sickness like ohhh I don't know covid, I will keep my guns and freedom. I could also move to the land of maple, but there I get the .gov saying if I protest they will take my property, children, bank account and toss me in prison for nothing more then saying no I don't agree with you, oh and take funds others send to me to support me, no I will keep my freedom and my gunz.
Do you think our .gov had those thoughts running through their little minds, sure they did. Why did they not do it, because this is one of the last free countries left. So many want to change all that, and the 2nd is standing in the way, without it everything fails. Dave Chepelle said the 2nd ammenement is there incase the 1st does not work. People want to take the second away so later on they can take the first away, we have seen it in Canada and Oz.
Eh another ramble, but no it does not need to go away, the "gun show loophole" does not need to go away, we have stats that show where guns used in crime comes from, and this is not it.
When we stop back and look at things, bad guys have always done bad things with guns, be they a highway man in the 1600, or the gang banger hanging a hipoint out over a car sideways as he drives down the street. This is something humans have always had to deal with.
Where I am wanting to know what the hell happened is when people just decide to walk into a X and start shooting, then end themselves or suicide by cop. We had one here this week, perhaps last. High school senior comes to school, shoots the SRO, and a vice principal and then is finally stopped. Guy walks into a church, a restrurant, or back to what I see as the start of this a clock tower at a college. Why is this a thing now, what has changed. Gun laws are not stopping it, things are much looser in 1966 when Charles whitman did his thing. We have stacked laws and laws and more laws, and the problem gets worse. If something is not working it is time to look to a new something. What has changed.....the world, is just the world now that we live in just making people like this, don't know. I do know one thing, if my choice is living in Oz and having the .gov come to my house grab me and toss me into a camp because they think I have a sickness like ohhh I don't know covid, I will keep my guns and freedom. I could also move to the land of maple, but there I get the .gov saying if I protest they will take my property, children, bank account and toss me in prison for nothing more then saying no I don't agree with you, oh and take funds others send to me to support me, no I will keep my freedom and my gunz.
Do you think our .gov had those thoughts running through their little minds, sure they did. Why did they not do it, because this is one of the last free countries left. So many want to change all that, and the 2nd is standing in the way, without it everything fails. Dave Chepelle said the 2nd ammenement is there incase the 1st does not work. People want to take the second away so later on they can take the first away, we have seen it in Canada and Oz.
Eh another ramble, but no it does not need to go away, the "gun show loophole" does not need to go away, we have stats that show where guns used in crime comes from, and this is not it.
The loonies are no more dangerous than common street thugs who illegally buy or steal the firearms without a background check. If the privileged (and no longer prosecuted) gang-bangers can get guns that easily, so can a deranged nut job. Neither type of threat will be stopped by a background check....but if you believe otherwise, so be it.
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It's amazing that so many people have fallen for the nonsense that background checks will protect everyone...meanwhile the real reason for background checks totally escapes them.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
These are all examples of privileges and illustrate the differences between the luxury of moving faster and right to self preservation.
The Science of Medicine is also self preservation and has been regulated longer than standing government. Even longer than it was just art and superstition.
Not at all. If we could be trusted as humans, I am for all schooling and training. It’s just we can’t. Eventually the schooling will be priced out of range. The trading will be too high a bar, just to restrict ownership.
The nature of government is of a dragon.
We must always fear and fight it. It will yet, always be.
Darth-Vang
Member
When you said, “it’s too dangerous” star wars popped in my head...
Also reminded me some quotes and scenes from it too. Padme nailed that one pretty good in my opinion. Remington1911
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I think this fits here, so I will include it, I am sure if it does not a mod will nuke it quickly.
This guy was a pretty strong lefty for years, then with the current way of things like many he is swinging more right. I would say more libertarian, but eh.
This is a good video where he admits he was wrong, and the coming around to the 2A way of thinking. I see this as a good thing.
IMHO it is worth a watch, we people that have been into this for a long time tend to be if nothing else short with new people, Using things like well use the search, this has been talked to a billion times, oh no every few years we have this come up again. We need to take our time and help out these new people, sure we might get trolled here and there, but I will take that chance to show what this guy has found out, gun people are not the nuts we are made out to be by the media.
This guy was a pretty strong lefty for years, then with the current way of things like many he is swinging more right. I would say more libertarian, but eh.
This is a good video where he admits he was wrong, and the coming around to the 2A way of thinking. I see this as a good thing.
IMHO it is worth a watch, we people that have been into this for a long time tend to be if nothing else short with new people, Using things like well use the search, this has been talked to a billion times, oh no every few years we have this come up again. We need to take our time and help out these new people, sure we might get trolled here and there, but I will take that chance to show what this guy has found out, gun people are not the nuts we are made out to be by the media.
That's not what happened at all. And we have covered it a great length. Please stop repeating incorrect information.
None of those are rights. There is a difference.
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