Don't ever say it couldn't ever happen to you. Arrested.

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davethedog

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I really apologize for the long first post but i need some answers and advice quickly as my trial date is three weeks from now. I was arrested recently and charged for "possession of a stolen firearm". I bought it in 2005 brand new in the box unfired with all the paperwork, from a FFL at a gun show and filled out form 4473 and background check. It was my concealed carry weapon and i had been carrying it around for 17 years when the numbers were ran at a DL checkpoint. I have a Concealed Carry permit but I was informed it was reported stolen, handcuffed and taken in despite my insistence it was legal and i was the only person who ever owned it. May i remind everyone i'm 69 years old with no criminal record of any kind, not even a traffic ticket.
Okay, here's the kicker. After i got out and started investigating i found it was reported stolen from a FFL dealer in 2003, a full two years before i purchased it brand new. I checked with the manufacturer and it did have a 2002 production date and most certainly is the same gun. Now if it had been stolen by a criminal it wouldn't have shown up two whole years later new in the box in the hands of another FFL dealer. Okay so how does this even happen? I am telling the truth. This story is so bizarre no one could make it up. It was reported to the ATF and to the local SO in 2003. Of course 19 years later they can't find the original file much less who it was stolen from. I now know the name of that dealer but he may have died in the years since. Not in business for years. I have no idea where the original receipt and box went so i don't remember the dealer i purchased it from although it would have been in state(no handgun sales across state lines).
I contacted the ATF, met with them last week and they are working on it or so they said. I have a really bad feeling they probably didn't believe me are not going to pursue the tracing any further or provide me with any information. I bought another firearm at the same gun show dealer a few months later so the ATF could trace that one for sure. It was 1 of 5 stolen so there may be 4 more people carrying around a weapon they would have no idea had been reported stolen. So here's what i'm saying. If you carry a weapon please have the local PD run the numbers even though you bought it legally. You just never know if someone entered a number wrong or there was some giant SNAFU involved. Now i'm going on trial for a felony with a 5 year sentence i absolutely had nothing to do with.
 
I live in a gun friendly state. I might have that same opinion if i lived in California or somewhere like that.
 
Do you have a lawyer representing you? If not, you should get one quickly. It would seem to me from what you wrote that you should seek to have the trial delayed until the ATF responds with the evidence you need. I am not a lawyer, but the ATF has some responsibility since it regulates gun purchases and is responsible for that system. Also find out if there is a record of the NICS background check that ought to be with the FBI. Most likely it would prove you made a legit purchase from an FFL
 
I really apologize for the long first post but i need some answers and advice quickly….

Welcome to THR!

I’m sorry this happened to you. Sounds like you did everything correctly. An example of another stupid law that doesn’t reflect reality or “system exploits and work arounds” that doesn’t account for “illegal” guns being purchased by innocent citizens.

Your case hinges on your ability to produce the 4473 signed buy you and your FFL at the time you acquired. With it, they got nothing on you.
 
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''Who would cook up a story like that , it must be true'' prima facie evidence IMHO.

A good attorney Sir, you need someone from here perhaps, to recommend an attorney in your area. And your area is...?

Any help fellow HighRoaders?
 
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That sucks man. I’ll keep you in prayer.

I have a peripheral question. Did they come and confiscate your other firearms? Did they confiscate your ammo?
 
I have already requested a continuance of the trial myself in order for the ATF to finish their investigation. They had originally set the trial 10 days from the charges being brought! I have not yet retained an attorney. I'm waiting to see what turns up to determine what kind of attorney i would need. It may be that i can prove ownership. I'm thinking it was a lost shipment from a distributor and reported stolen, then recovered, resold and never taken off the NCIC. For right now am doing all the legwork an attorney would do. I had a FFL 03 for 15 years. I know how the system works. I realize i have no real chance of being convicted. The state has to prove i willfully and knowingly possessed a stolen firearm. No one in their right mind would carry a stolen firearm with a concealed carry permit. The only justification for a prosecution would be that at the time of my arrest i did not state i didn't know it was stolen, only that it WASN'T stolen. Considering i am the only retail owner of the firearm i believed that to be true at the time.
 
First off, What PC did the police have to run the SN# on your gun? Also, the police need PC to make an arrest.
Also check the charge against you. In most states the charge is Illegal possession of a stolen firearm. Just because you have a gun that was reported stolen, does not mean that you came into possession it illegally.
I bought a gun a few years ago from a guy. I was a police officer at the time and I ran the SN# and the gun came back clean. I ended up trading the gun to a friend. About a year later that friend sold it to someone. That person’s brother worked for the local Sheriff Department, and he ran the SN# number and it came back as stolen.
I was contacted by the SO about how I came in possession. I told them that I didn’t remember the guy’s name, but he said that he bought the gun from his roommate. I found out that the gun was reported stolen the day after I had bought it.
My friend nor I got into any trouble, but my friend no longer had the gun and gave the buyer his money back. I did give my friend the amount of money that he was going to sell the gun for.
I would bet money that the dealer that reported your gun stolen had a problem with keeping up his Firearm disposal books. He most likely sold it to the other dealer and forgot to make the dealer transfer in his log book. When doing an inventory he may have been unable to account for the gun so, he just reported it stolen to stay out of hot water with BATF.
 
I have had a FFL tell me sloppy records may be the case. There were two of us on motorcycles and we had rode 550 miles that day and we were tired. It was a multi-agency DL check. I had a radar detector and one guy started loudly demanding answers to his questions as to where we had been and where we were going. I don't answer questions like that. We were pulled to the side and had the drug dog run around the bikes. Neither of us had anything illegal on us. I produced the firearm willingly as i have a concealed permit. I wear a body camera while riding for incidents just like this. We were only 50 miles from home and i had already taken it off. They must have thought they had caught a Sons of Anarchy international firearm trafficking ring. Basically we were pulled to the side for looking suspicious and not answering questions. I have no criminal record and not even a speeding ticket. They are not willing to provide me with an arrest report, even though i am entitled to one. It may take awhile and a trip down there to fill out the request but i will get it.
 
What an unfortunate series if events. That is simply horrible news.

Rather than awaiting the BATFE/ATF (or whatever they call themselves these days) my suggestion would be to retain a proper lawyer NOW rather than "scrambling under pressure" a week or two in the future. Best wishes that you are completely vindicated and this becomes just a lousy memory.
 
Actually getting arrested 50 miles from home may have been a blessing. I have carried that compact 9MM around a lot for the last 17 years all over the country where my CCP was accepted. Hate to think what a nightmare that would have been if it had been ran 1,500 miles from home. I have always had the numbers ran on everything that i didn't purchase new but i would have never ran that one. I also carry a Type 52 Chinese Tokarev made in 1952 that i bought "new" about 30+ years ago. I'm going to have the numbers ran on that one just to make sure.
 
What an unfortunate series if events. That is simply horrible news.

Rather than awaiting the BATFE/ATF (or whatever they call themselves these days) my suggestion would be to retain a proper lawyer NOW rather than "scrambling under pressure" a week or two in the future. Best wishes that you are completely vindicated and this becomes just a lousy memory.
yes, this^
Those feds are NOT "looking into it" or anything in your behave, that was just a stall. :cuss:
Get a lawyer now. :what:
No one will listen to you without a lawyer and will drop the hammer on you in court.
jmo,
.
 
This sounds a lot like what I got arrested for a few years ago. I was just a hair away from losing my firearm rights forever because of some bad paperwork. Find yourself a bulldog of a lawyer to fight your case. Hope your situation ends up like mine: charges dropped.

If you can find the receipt (even just a charge on your CC statement would help) and the box it came in when you bought it, that would be some primo evidence in your case. Shows legal purchase from legal establishment, even if it has gone out of business.
 
I would not put all my trust in one judge that may be anti gun Obama appointee. I would ask for a jury trial if it came to that. That way you and your lawyer get a chance to select your peers. Also, keep in mind that cars are stolen every minute of everyday and some have the VIN tampered with and then the vehicle sold most likely as a totaled rebuild. the buyer of this vehicle is the VICTIM as much as the person who they stole the Vehicle from. Same as you! If the police don't come to their senses then I am sure people on the jury will. Good Luck BTW have you started a Go Fund me yet.. This may get expensive..
 
If the ATF decides not to help i might could try to track it myself from manufacturer to distributor to FFL dealer but they probably wouldn't give that information to an individual. I've got to contact the ATF tomorrow to see what they say. The agent i talked to at the local field office seemed like a decent sort of guy and talked like he was going to help.
 
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